redocneXk released - Realtime 5.1 ac3 Encoder

Tril · Mar 26, 2006, 11:38 PM

I don't know for sure but my thought is that the problem probably lies in the lack of AC3 passthru support in 3534f. Take a look at the changelogs to find out since which version AC3 passthru works.

Hewk · Mar 27, 2006, 10:06 AM

After reading this thread, I got it working for: Creative Drivers + Audigy ZS (A400)

Settings:
-Enable SPDIF Passthrough. Even if you do get sound with "Use Built-in decoder" turn on SPDIF passthrough!
-Change the default latency using a third-party latency tool (for example AsioCAP) for all listed devices to a correct value (4ms works here).
-redocneXk.exe -i 4 5 6 7 8 9

As soon as you start redocneXk, the receiver should receive a Dolby Digital signal, even when not playing any sound.

When you hear a mp3 playing via a Dolby Digital signal (instead of PCM) over SPDIF, you know it is working. Maybe not fine-tuned, but it's working.

Retribution1979 · Apr 14, 2006, 04:00 PM

To the author of this program, I just wanna say you rock man! I have an SB audigy sound card, and used to run an analog sound system for 5.1. Then i upgraded to a true surround sound system and wanted to retain the 5.1 sound for gaming but was discouraged after alot of googling finding out that it just wasnt possible. Then i found this forum and after a bit of fooling around got it to work. Games sound awesome now, and I just wanted to say thanks alot!

ROBSCIX · May 5, 2006, 12:16 PM

@RET, so your using a digital speaker system?

Tril · May 8, 2006, 12:45 AM

I'm getting close to releasing a new version with a GUI. I'll call it version 2.00 since it's a big change going from the console app to an MFC app.
Here's a screenshot of the interface : LINK

I'm open to suggestions on stuff that should be added. Also, please tell me if I made any english language mistakes or if you have suggestions for better text for any labels.

So far, there are only two things that don't work :
- saving and deleting presets
- using Directound instead of WaveOut. (DirectSound causes stutter. Probably because of a small bug)

It's won't take long to fix. Once it's fixed, I'll release it here.

Russ · May 8, 2006, 06:20 PM

It looks like it is coming along nicely Tril.

Tril · May 8, 2006, 08:03 PM

Saving and loading fixed.

Now, I just need to find the bug when using DirectSound and do some testing. If I can't find the bug, I'll simply remove DirectSound as my tests showed that WaveOut was faster by at least 10 ms.

I also need to write a readme.

Auric · May 9, 2006, 10:53 PM

Cool, I'm looking forward to it.

The DS renderer suffers a delay with my testing of an A2 ZS with Creative's driver too. WO was fine after the latency was lowered from default 50 to 4ms. This WMV file was useful: http://www.cinenow.com/us/vob-trailers-77.html

Just to confirm, the driver choices of Creative ASIO and SB Audigy 2 ZS ASIO [B000] seem spec and functionally the same but maintain seperate latency configs. SB Audigy 2 ZS ASIO 24/96 [B000] latency is not configurable from ASIO caps 32 and in any case crashes redocneXk. I guess 48KHz is required.

This has not been mentioned and I do not know what affect it has but when no output switch is used with the WO renderer the output device is "-1 - Microsoft Sound Mapper" but when set with "-o 0" it is "0 - SB Audigy 2 ZS ASIO [B000]".

Will 2.00 read and make available all choices? Does it make sense to have a seperate Window for the Control Panel rather than just include the buffer settings in the main? What is the recommended buffer? 4ms? Is the MCI Waveform buffer setting relevant? There did not seem to be any delay testing BF2 (with OpenAL) however some sounds were missing. Any improvement there?

Tril · May 10, 2006, 02:56 AM

I got you to register for your first post.

The AC3 encoding works on 32 ms buffers. I recommend any latency setting from 0.67ms to 32ms (except 21.33ms).

Yes, 48KHz is required for the encoding.

'Microsoft Sound Mapper' is the default device that you choose in the Windows control panel. If you never changed it, it is usually the same as the device chosen by -o 0.

Auric, did you give a try to the version modified for the Creative drivers (near the end of the first post)? It should add some missing sounds compared to the standard version.

The DirectSound crash bug is fixed (there was one, I did not mention it before). I found the source of the stutter. It only happens when you shoose the 21.33ms ASIO latency setting. The solution is to use any other latency setting.

There's still one last bug. It does not want to load the settings files when it is loaded at Windows startup. I'll figure this out and release it afterward.

EDIT : Bug fixed. I'll probably release it in the evening after writing some documentation. I'm going to sleep. It's 4:30 and I work tomorrow morning.

Auric · May 11, 2006, 07:31 AM

Yeah, I've been following the thread for awhile but was finally motivated by the news of 2.00 to speak up.

I suppose I will have to try 32ms then. I just tried 4ms as it was suggested by others.

I recall the Microsoft Sound Mapper from other systems or software configs before but it actually is not an option from my Windows CP (only SB Audigy 2 ZS Audio [B000])

It was the 1.04 test version that was missing sounds in BF2. Normally, I use the 2 speaker setting with headphones connected to a receiver (S/PDIF PCM). If 5 speaker is set from the CP then directional sounds cut out as expected. With redocnXk, that does not happen but certain sounds are just oddly missing such as the aircraft cannon, while certain environmental effects such as birds chirping are added or enhanced.

I have not tried BF2 with the DS3D wrapper so don't know if that could make any difference (I force direct use of OpenAL by replacing the wrapper with the router). The GUI version of redocneXk will certainly make me more eager to do more testing

Russ · May 11, 2006, 08:33 AM

Some suggestions for version 2.0:

You should probably only allow a single instance of the program to run (i.e. if you double-click on the .exe when it is allready running, just show the GUI of the allready running instance).

Maybe add data validation and formatting of the number fields for the matrix settings (i.e. validate the data (i.e. min/max values) when the edit box loses focus, and format the number field).

Also, there is currently no way to exit the program from within the GUI itself. Maybe add a menu with an exit option, or a button, etc.

Arctarus · May 12, 2006, 08:22 AM

Finally i tried the redocnexk with creative drivers like described by hewk, soundblaster audigy 2 zs, connected via SPDIF to my dolby digital system, it got a signal on the dd but i can hear anything? What is it i make wrong? Passtrough enabled, output 96khz (output i think is to set to 48khz!)

Tril · May 12, 2006, 05:17 PM

The screenshot that you posted shows that the ASIO latency is set a little high. Try to lower the ASIO latency. For that, you need to access the ASIO control panel and set it lower.

To access the ASIO control panel, you can use ASIO caps or my new version of redocneXk with a GUI.

Arctarus · May 13, 2006, 11:24 AM

Now i´ve tried the GUI, looks nice, but in my case it doesn´t works (The creative drivers, Led of the DD Decoder goes on, but no sound is heard). Then i tried the 1.4 redocne that before doesn´t run (ASIO settings), and i think over the gui - asio creative control panel i choosed 4 ms, now it works fine with the 5.1 Sound of the test module from Creative. MP3 sound is only in Stereo with center box (DD led is on!). Now i have to try some games...

edit: MP3 on 5.1 with EAX cmss enabled in console! works great, no stutter anymore! Volume control between front and Rear works already!

redocneXk.exe parameters -o 0 -d 0 -i 4 5 6 7 8 9

Arctarus · May 13, 2006, 11:33 AM

Here the GUI parameters, no sound, dd signal is on, the parameters in Creative Panels are the same like above... (tried different encoding bitrates, noresult..)

Russ · May 13, 2006, 03:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arctarus

Here the GUI parameters, no sound, dd signal is on, the parameters in Creative Panels are the same like above... (tried different encoding bitrates, noresult..)

This is probably a dumb question, but, you did click on the 'Start' button at the top of the GUI window, right?

Maddogg6 · May 13, 2006, 03:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Russ

This is probably a dumb question, but, you did click on the 'Start' button at the top of the GUI window, right?

lol - remember Russ - there ARE no dumb questions... hehe.

Russ · May 13, 2006, 04:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maddogg6

lol - remember Russ - there ARE no dumb questions... hehe.

Hehe, thus why I posted it. You never know, he may not have seen the start button, and may have thought that it auto-starts when you execute the .exe (BTW: @Tril, that should probably be an option).

Tril · May 13, 2006, 05:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Russ

Hehe, thus why I posted it. You never know, he may not have seen the start button, and may have thought that it auto-starts when you execute the .exe (BTW: @Tril, that should probably be an option).

It's there already. It's called "automatic startup delay". You check this and put in a delay. After executing the exe, the encoding will start after the selected delay. Simply check it and put 0 in the box if you want the encoding to start as soon as you execute the exe.

I could rename it to "auto-start delay" in the next version.

To Arctarus : the encoding bitrate you chose is too low. That's not the encoding frequency, it's the encoding bitrate. Leave it at 640000 for the best sound quality. The lowest settings are there because they are part of the DD stardard but they don't work because they are too low for 6 channels of audio. In the next version, I'll remove all the too low bitrates.

Russ · May 13, 2006, 05:12 PM

Ahh, I undertsand. I thought that was to delay the 'Load at Windows startup', but that makes more sense, considering it would not need to be delayed at Windows startup, unless it is also starting at that time.

Arctarus · May 14, 2006, 06:20 AM

I have set up the GUI with 640000, tried all combinations with driver, renderer, nothing to do, still it receives a dd signal, but no sound is heard...and yes, i started the programm with the start button.

Tril · May 14, 2006, 08:25 AM

It's possible that's it's a bug. The version 2.01 has not been tested by a lot of people.

EDIT : It's a bug and I found it. I'll fix it for the next version (2.02).

Arctarus · May 14, 2006, 11:31 AM

Wow that was fast, great that you found the problem! Good luck for the next release!

psychok9 · May 30, 2006, 10:24 PM

I can use with SB Live 5.1 Digital!?

psychok9 · May 30, 2006, 11:48 PM

no dd signal with latest kxdriver!!!

pls helpme!

psychok9 · May 31, 2006, 01:15 AM

I have found, maybe, the problem: i can't passthrough on spdif!
Solution? I have sound blaster 5.1 digital.
The passthrough work with creative driver... but i don't found asio driver compatible

I have tryed asio4all but redocnexk/redocnexktest crash!

Max M. · May 31, 2006, 09:52 AM

kX does not support AC3-passthrough for SBLive. There's nothing you can do with this.
(redocnexk will work - but kX won't pass through the signal encoded by redocnexk)

psychok9 · May 31, 2006, 10:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Max M.

kX does not support AC3-passthrough for SBLive. There's nothing you can do with this.
(redocnexk will work - but kX won't pass through the signal encoded by redocnexk)

kX diver have this problem... but don't exist asio driver compatible with redocnexk?

Max M. · May 31, 2006, 10:53 AM

>but don't exist asio driver compatible with redocnexk?

I don't think so. Well, may be Tril will look into Asio4all to see if it is could be compatible with redocneXk - may be not.
(Well, if this ac3encoding thingy is the most important feature for you, i would recommend you to consider to obtain a soundcard having this feature initialy...)

psychok9 · May 31, 2006, 12:43 PM

Yeah, thank you for suggestion.
Im evaluating to buy HDA XPlosion 7.1 (DTS)... but the problem is $$

I hope that i can try soon the kxdriver with passthrough.

"To Do...
Add AC3 Passthrough for Live (10k1-based) cards".

Mar 27, 2006, 10:06 AM	#332
Hewk DriverHeaven Newbie Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 1 Rep Power: 0	Creative drivers working After reading this thread, I got it working for: Creative Drivers + Audigy ZS (A400) Settings: -Enable SPDIF Passthrough. Even if you do get sound with "Use Built-in decoder" turn on SPDIF passthrough! -Change the default latency using a third-party latency tool (for example AsioCAP) for all listed devices to a correct value (4ms works here). -redocneXk.exe -i 4 5 6 7 8 9 As soon as you start redocneXk, the receiver should receive a Dolby Digital signal, even when not playing any sound. When you hear a mp3 playing via a Dolby Digital signal (instead of PCM) over SPDIF, you know it is working. Maybe not fine-tuned, but it's working.

May 10, 2006, 02:56 AM	#339
Tril S-3D enthusiast Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Canada Posts: 1,561 Rep Power: 39 System Specs	I got you to register for your first post. The AC3 encoding works on 32 ms buffers. I recommend any latency setting from 0.67ms to 32ms (except 21.33ms). Yes, 48KHz is required for the encoding. 'Microsoft Sound Mapper' is the default device that you choose in the Windows control panel. If you never changed it, it is usually the same as the device chosen by -o 0. Auric, did you give a try to the version modified for the Creative drivers (near the end of the first post)? It should add some missing sounds compared to the standard version. The DirectSound crash bug is fixed (there was one, I did not mention it before). I found the source of the stutter. It only happens when you shoose the 21.33ms ASIO latency setting. The solution is to use any other latency setting. There's still one last bug. It does not want to load the settings files when it is loaded at Windows startup. I'll figure this out and release it afterward. EDIT : Bug fixed. I'll probably release it in the evening after writing some documentation. I'm going to sleep. It's 4:30 and I work tomorrow morning. Last edited by Tril; May 10, 2006 at 04:28 AM.

May 11, 2006, 08:33 AM	#341
Russ DriverHeaven Extreme Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 4,836 Rep Power: 41	Some suggestions for version 2.0: You should probably only allow a single instance of the program to run (i.e. if you double-click on the .exe when it is allready running, just show the GUI of the allready running instance). Maybe add data validation and formatting of the number fields for the matrix settings (i.e. validate the data (i.e. min/max values) when the edit box loses focus, and format the number field). Also, there is currently no way to exit the program from within the GUI itself. Maybe add a menu with an exit option, or a button, etc. Last edited by Russ; May 11, 2006 at 09:20 AM.

May 12, 2006, 08:22 AM	#342
Arctarus DriverHeaven Newbie Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 5 Rep Power: 0	Finally i tried the redocnexk with creative drivers like described by hewk, soundblaster audigy 2 zs, connected via SPDIF to my dolby digital system, it got a signal on the dd but i can hear anything? What is it i make wrong? Passtrough enabled, output 96khz (output i think is to set to 48khz!) Attached Thumbnails Last edited by Arctarus; May 13, 2006 at 11:22 AM.

May 13, 2006, 11:24 AM	#344
Arctarus DriverHeaven Newbie Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 5 Rep Power: 0	Now i´ve tried the GUI, looks nice, but in my case it doesn´t works (The creative drivers, Led of the DD Decoder goes on, but no sound is heard). Then i tried the 1.4 redocne that before doesn´t run (ASIO settings), and i think over the gui - asio creative control panel i choosed 4 ms, now it works fine with the 5.1 Sound of the test module from Creative. MP3 sound is only in Stereo with center box (DD led is on!). Now i have to try some games... edit: MP3 on 5.1 with EAX cmss enabled in console! works great, no stutter anymore! Volume control between front and Rear works already! redocneXk.exe parameters -o 0 -d 0 -i 4 5 6 7 8 9 Attached Thumbnails Last edited by Arctarus; May 13, 2006 at 11:56 AM.

Mar 26, 2006, 11:38 PM	#331
Tril S-3D enthusiast Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Canada Posts: 1,561 Rep Power: 39 System Specs	I don't know for sure but my thought is that the problem probably lies in the lack of AC3 passthru support in 3534f. Take a look at the changelogs to find out since which version AC3 passthru works.

Apr 14, 2006, 04:00 PM	#333
Retribution1979 DriverHeaven Newbie Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 1 Rep Power: 0	To the author of this program, I just wanna say you rock man! I have an SB audigy sound card, and used to run an analog sound system for 5.1. Then i upgraded to a true surround sound system and wanted to retain the 5.1 sound for gaming but was discouraged after alot of googling finding out that it just wasnt possible. Then i found this forum and after a bit of fooling around got it to work. Games sound awesome now, and I just wanted to say thanks alot!

May 5, 2006, 12:16 PM	#334
ROBSCIX DriverHeaven Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2004 Posts: 1,745 Rep Power: 0	@RET, so your using a digital speaker system?

May 8, 2006, 12:45 AM	#335
Tril S-3D enthusiast Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Canada Posts: 1,561 Rep Power: 39 System Specs	I'm getting close to releasing a new version with a GUI. I'll call it version 2.00 since it's a big change going from the console app to an MFC app. Here's a screenshot of the interface : LINK I'm open to suggestions on stuff that should be added. Also, please tell me if I made any english language mistakes or if you have suggestions for better text for any labels. So far, there are only two things that don't work : - saving and deleting presets - using Directound instead of WaveOut. (DirectSound causes stutter. Probably because of a small bug) It's won't take long to fix. Once it's fixed, I'll release it here.

May 8, 2006, 06:20 PM	#336
Russ DriverHeaven Extreme Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 4,836 Rep Power: 41	It looks like it is coming along nicely Tril.

May 8, 2006, 08:03 PM	#337
Tril S-3D enthusiast Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Canada Posts: 1,561 Rep Power: 39 System Specs	Saving and loading fixed. Now, I just need to find the bug when using DirectSound and do some testing. If I can't find the bug, I'll simply remove DirectSound as my tests showed that WaveOut was faster by at least 10 ms. I also need to write a readme.

May 9, 2006, 10:53 PM	#338
Auric DriverHeaven Newbie Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 5 Rep Power: 0	Cool, I'm looking forward to it. The DS renderer suffers a delay with my testing of an A2 ZS with Creative's driver too. WO was fine after the latency was lowered from default 50 to 4ms. This WMV file was useful: http://www.cinenow.com/us/vob-trailers-77.html Just to confirm, the driver choices of Creative ASIO and SB Audigy 2 ZS ASIO [B000] seem spec and functionally the same but maintain seperate latency configs. SB Audigy 2 ZS ASIO 24/96 [B000] latency is not configurable from ASIO caps 32 and in any case crashes redocneXk. I guess 48KHz is required. This has not been mentioned and I do not know what affect it has but when no output switch is used with the WO renderer the output device is "-1 - Microsoft Sound Mapper" but when set with "-o 0" it is "0 - SB Audigy 2 ZS ASIO [B000]". Will 2.00 read and make available all choices? Does it make sense to have a seperate Window for the Control Panel rather than just include the buffer settings in the main? What is the recommended buffer? 4ms? Is the MCI Waveform buffer setting relevant? There did not seem to be any delay testing BF2 (with OpenAL) however some sounds were missing. Any improvement there?

May 11, 2006, 07:31 AM	#340
Auric DriverHeaven Newbie Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 5 Rep Power: 0	Yeah, I've been following the thread for awhile but was finally motivated by the news of 2.00 to speak up. I suppose I will have to try 32ms then. I just tried 4ms as it was suggested by others. I recall the Microsoft Sound Mapper from other systems or software configs before but it actually is not an option from my Windows CP (only SB Audigy 2 ZS Audio [B000]) It was the 1.04 test version that was missing sounds in BF2. Normally, I use the 2 speaker setting with headphones connected to a receiver (S/PDIF PCM). If 5 speaker is set from the CP then directional sounds cut out as expected. With redocnXk, that does not happen but certain sounds are just oddly missing such as the aircraft cannon, while certain environmental effects such as birds chirping are added or enhanced. I have not tried BF2 with the DS3D wrapper so don't know if that could make any difference (I force direct use of OpenAL by replacing the wrapper with the router). The GUI version of redocneXk will certainly make me more eager to do more testing

May 12, 2006, 05:17 PM	#343
Tril S-3D enthusiast Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Canada Posts: 1,561 Rep Power: 39 System Specs	The screenshot that you posted shows that the ASIO latency is set a little high. Try to lower the ASIO latency. For that, you need to access the ASIO control panel and set it lower. To access the ASIO control panel, you can use ASIO caps or my new version of redocneXk with a GUI.

May 13, 2006, 11:33 AM	#345
Arctarus DriverHeaven Newbie Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 5 Rep Power: 0	Here the GUI parameters, no sound, dd signal is on, the parameters in Creative Panels are the same like above... (tried different encoding bitrates, noresult..) Attached Thumbnails Last edited by Arctarus; May 13, 2006 at 11:49 AM.

May 13, 2006, 05:12 PM	#350
Russ DriverHeaven Extreme Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 4,836 Rep Power: 41	Ahh, I undertsand. I thought that was to delay the 'Load at Windows startup', but that makes more sense, considering it would not need to be delayed at Windows startup, unless it is also starting at that time.

May 14, 2006, 06:20 AM	#351
Arctarus DriverHeaven Newbie Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 5 Rep Power: 0	I have set up the GUI with 640000, tried all combinations with driver, renderer, nothing to do, still it receives a dd signal, but no sound is heard...and yes, i started the programm with the start button.

May 14, 2006, 08:25 AM	#352
Tril S-3D enthusiast Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Canada Posts: 1,561 Rep Power: 39 System Specs	It's possible that's it's a bug. The version 2.01 has not been tested by a lot of people. EDIT : It's a bug and I found it. I'll fix it for the next version (2.02). Last edited by Tril; May 14, 2006 at 08:35 AM.

May 14, 2006, 11:31 AM	#353
Arctarus DriverHeaven Newbie Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 5 Rep Power: 0	Wow that was fast, great that you found the problem! Good luck for the next release!

May 30, 2006, 10:24 PM	#354
psychok9 DriverHeaven Junior Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 39 Rep Power: 0	I can use with SB Live 5.1 Digital!?

May 30, 2006, 11:48 PM	#355
psychok9 DriverHeaven Junior Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 39 Rep Power: 0	no dd signal with latest kxdriver!!! pls helpme!

May 31, 2006, 01:15 AM	#356
psychok9 DriverHeaven Junior Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 39 Rep Power: 0	I have found, maybe, the problem: i can't passthrough on spdif! Solution? I have sound blaster 5.1 digital. The passthrough work with creative driver... but i don't found asio driver compatible I have tryed asio4all but redocnexk/redocnexktest crash! Last edited by psychok9; May 31, 2006 at 02:12 AM.

May 31, 2006, 09:52 AM	#357
Max M. d/h member-shmember Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Evil Empire Posts: 2,412 Rep Power: 47	kX does not support AC3-passthrough for SBLive. There's nothing you can do with this. (redocnexk will work - but kX won't pass through the signal encoded by redocnexk)

May 31, 2006, 10:53 AM	#359
Max M. d/h member-shmember Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Evil Empire Posts: 2,412 Rep Power: 47	>but don't exist asio driver compatible with redocnexk? I don't think so. Well, may be Tril will look into Asio4all to see if it is could be compatible with redocneXk - may be not. (Well, if this ac3encoding thingy is the most important feature for you, i would recommend you to consider to obtain a soundcard having this feature initialy...)

May 31, 2006, 12:43 PM	#360
psychok9 DriverHeaven Junior Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 39 Rep Power: 0	Yeah, thank you for suggestion. Im evaluating to buy HDA XPlosion 7.1 (DTS)... but the problem is $$ I hope that i can try soon the kxdriver with passthrough. "To Do... Add AC3 Passthrough for Live (10k1-based) cards".