Dumb question about SPDIF out... - (Live! AC3 Passthrough)

davemann · Dec 18, 2002, 05:18 PM

I know that ac3 passthrough isn't yet supported on the Live! series of cards yet, but when can we expect to see this. I'd like to be able to both use the ASIO driver and watch dvd's in 5.1 surround without having to switch drivers everytime, or having to settle for dolby surround downmixing. I only have a Live Value card, thus analog 5.1 out for me is not an option. Don't get me wrong, I really do admire the work that's being done with these drivers, and wish I could do something to help out, but I'm not competent enough in anything to even bother offering.

--Dave

Oscar · Dec 26, 2002, 04:08 AM

I got a SB Live! Platinum 5.1 and I am having exactly the same problem, as well (couldn't hear anything with a Digital PIN connection)...... Hopefully kX will support PCM-passthrough soon

Max M. · Dec 26, 2002, 08:40 AM

>(couldn't hear anything with a Digital PIN connection)...... Hopefully kX will support PCM-passthrough soon

What do you mean? "PCM passrough" (whatever you mean with it - "SPDIF Bypass" or plain PCM playback to Digital Output) is supported and works perfectly.

davemann · Dec 26, 2002, 11:47 AM

Yeah, PCM out works just fine, I dont know what the previous guy was talking about, i just want to see ac3 passthrough on my live! so that i can listen to dolby and dts streams in their original 5.1'ness on my reciever with the kx drivers...

Max M. · Dec 26, 2002, 12:15 PM

the problem is that that "ac3 passthrough" is supported actually (Audigy, and theoretically Live with chip rev. > 7) but we have no equipment to test this feature and make it automatical/userfriendly...

davemann · Dec 26, 2002, 12:49 PM

so what you're saying is that you need a CT4830/32 card to work it out on?

Oscar · Dec 26, 2002, 05:32 PM

In my situation, all PCM signals (including Dolby Digital and DTS) are pass through a Digital DIN connection from my SB Live! 5.1 to the receiver of my Inspire 5700 Digital. I couldn't hear anything from the speakers when I tried the kX Drivers last time around......

davemann · Dec 26, 2002, 05:40 PM

I think you're missing the kX man's point, PCM is PCM and AC3 is AC3... PCM namely being the digital stereo out that most stereo recievers accept and so do some PC speaker sets that have a DIN connection. The Stereo PCM out on the kX drivers works already, I'm not debating that, but I would like to passthrough any AC3 streams directly over the SPDIF out, to my reciever.. for DVD playback with dolby/dts.. It just so happens at this point in time it doesnt work "automatically" as it does on the audigy series of cards now (am i wrong? It does on the audigies, right?), and I don't know of the way to rig it up in the dsp even if it was somehow unsupportedly supported... Unfortunately I can't donate my ct4830 to the cause as I'm low on cash and need my sound card, but maybe somebody could give them a study piece?

--Dave

Oscar · Dec 26, 2002, 06:54 PM

Sound Blaster Live! 5.1
By Maksim Lyadov

The third generation of the Live! was named Sound Blaster Live! 5.1. In the review Creative SB Live! Platinum 5.1 sound card I wrote that thanks to the excessive functionality the EMU10K served such a long time. The chips had 4 (!) S/PDIF-INs which made possible to assemble even a 7.1 card on it. The Platinum 5.1 has a remote control, above all.

The quality of a digital sound didn't improve much in the Live! 5.1 as compared with the 2-generation Live! But there are other very pleasant things such as 5.1 sound in games (where updated DirectSound3D drivers processed and produced 5 independent channels to each speaker given to the current game situation) and Dolby Digital 5.1 decoding by means of the card. How the decoding is implemented (on a software, hardware or soft hardware level) is not necessary for a user to know. It is important that this function is supported and is not worse in quality than the alternatives (the DVD-players WinDVD and PowerDVD has a completely software realization of decoding). 5.1-sound in games and movies is worth replacing the Live! with the Live! 5.1. And it doesn't necessary to buy a new card.

By the way, the Live!5.1 has a more complicated Digital-Out. First of all, it is combined with the third analog center/sub output (the "analog or digital" mode can be set with the "Digital Ouput Only" switch). Secondly, this is a 4-pin connector! Thus, you can transfer 6 uncompressed PCM streams 16bit 48 kHz without quality losses in either operating mode (movies, games or music). You will need 6 decoded channels in movies if you want to listen to a sound track in the DTS standard in the highest quality mode when watching a DVD movie, even without a special hardware decoder (WinDVD 3.0 DTS edition, hence from the Live!5.1 in a digital mode to the 6-channel 24/96 DAC in the DTT3500 - and that's all! You don't need to buy a DTS decoder at $150-200.) You can enjoy a 6-channel digital sound in games the same way. Connection in an analog mode yields in quality to the digital one, especially in high frequencies. But it is for you to decide what price/quality ratio is optimal for you.

http://www.digit-life.com/articles/a...mex/index.html

Max M. · Dec 26, 2002, 07:07 PM

Oscar, you are comletely lost in fromats and settings... I can say to you that with kX you can transefer up to 10 uncompressed PCM streams 16bit 48 kHz without quality losses. But you still don't understand what all this is about... Sorry man, but i think that kX is too complex thingy for you...

Oscar · Dec 26, 2002, 07:07 PM

DVD and Dolby Digital 5.1 decoding
By Maksim Lyadov

The hottest topic in the conferences dedicated to sound cards is: "It can't be that this Live!5.1 with its old chip EMU10K, 1998, could decode anything hardwarily..."

Let's examine this together. The main cause of such vitality of the Live! concludes in the fact that the EMU10K chip was developed as a universal engineering product for far not child sound cards and samplers of the company EMU. That's why it possesses many resources for expandability. The chip has outputs for working with AC-link bus and with I2S bus. Besides, it is equipped with 4 S/PDIF out.

Scheme of pins of main outputs.

http://www.digit-life.com/articles/s...m51/emu10k.gif

In a usual Live! there is only one output, the information on others doubles. In the 5.1 card series they use already 3 such outputs. My friends has installed a firmware upgrade on the Live!Value1024 (CT4830) from a similar one of the Player 5.1. The drivers worked without difficulty, all applications worked as if it were the 5.1 card. So, all rumors on special and optimized for DolbyDigital revision of the EMU10K chip were disproved in practice.

http://www.digit-life.com/articles/s...m51/index.html

Oscar · Dec 26, 2002, 07:10 PM

Creative Inspire 5.1 Digital 5700

http://dmzweb3.europe.creative.com/h...utsources1.gif

Max M. · Dec 26, 2002, 07:11 PM

Oscar, stop please putting that info here. We know all this. The problem is in another place. Keep it easier please. I'm starting to treat you as a flamer.

Max M. · Dec 26, 2002, 07:18 PM

davemann
>so what you're saying is that you need a CT4830/32 card to work it out on?

it's not funny, i'm saying we need an "external reciever with decoder"...

Oscar · Dec 26, 2002, 07:31 PM

Dave,

I am glad to know that PCM Stereo works for your setup, and I am happy for you, man. I honestly didn't lie when I said that it didn't work for my setup though......

(Neither did PCM Multichannel... See the Inspire 5700 diagram above.)

PS: It's my understanding that AC3 is only meant for Dolby Digital encoded stream, but not DTS, correct?

Max,

I am sorry, but those posts were only meant to assist you and the kX Team in identifying the issue(s)...... I do support the kX Project, and I believe that you can find my name among those on the donor's list

davemann · Dec 26, 2002, 10:37 PM

Shit, you don't have a buddy that could "lend" you a reciever for a while?

Oscar · Dec 26, 2002, 11:36 PM

I have done some testings with kX Drivers v5.10.0.3528 today with the following default settings in kX Mixer: no front/rear swapping, no S/PDIF silencing. Here are my findings:

kX Test Mode

kX Mixer: Digital, Inspire 5700 Input: Digital -> Three channels (left, centre, right)
kX Mixer: Digital, Inspire 5700 Input: Digital & Analog -> Two channels (left, right)

kX Mixer: Digital, Inspire 5700 Input: Digital & Analog -> Four channels (left, right, rear left, rear right)
kX Mixer: Digital, Inspire 5700 Input: Analog -> Four channels (left, right, rear left, rear right)

Movies (PowerDVD)

Digital: No sound
Analog: Noises

Music (Winamp)

kX Mixer: Digital, Inspire 5700 Effect: DIN -> Two channels, (relatively) strong bass
kX Mixer: Digital, Inspire 5700 Effect: Stereo -> Two channels, weak bass (subwoofer)
(Inspire 5700 Input: Digital)

kX Mixer: Analog, Inspire 5700 Effect: DIN -> Four channels, no (very weak) bass
kX Mixer: Analog, Inspire 5700 Effect: Stereo -> Two channels, (relatively) strong bass
(Inspire 5700 Input: Analog)

Connectivity diagram for the Creative Inspire 5.1 5700

http://dmzweb4.europe.creative.com/h...0_connecta.gif
http://dmzweb4.europe.creative.com/h...0_connectb.gif
http://dmzweb4.europe.creative.com/h...0_connectc.gif
http://dmzweb4.europe.creative.com/h...0_connectd.gif

Oscar · Dec 26, 2002, 11:49 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Max M.
>(couldn't hear anything with a Digital PIN connection)...... Hopefully kX will support PCM-passthrough soon

What do you mean? "PCM passrough" (whatever you mean with it - "SPDIF Bypass" or plain PCM playback to Digital Output) is supported and works perfectly.

Quote:

Originally posted by davemann
Yeah, PCM out works just fine, I dont know what the previous guy was talking about, i just want to see ac3 passthrough on my live! so that i can listen to dolby and dts streams in their original 5.1'ness on my reciever with the kx drivers...

PCM Stereo seems to be working for me in the latest version of kX Drivers (v5.10.0.3528). It wasn't the case when I was testing v5.10.0.3526 though, unfortunately...... (There was literally no sound at all.) Anyway, thank you for your tolerance and understanding

Now only if the DD/DTS passthrough could work...

davemann · Dec 27, 2002, 12:03 AM

Once again, your feedback on the subject is appreciated, but this is not quite where I meant this topic to go in the first place... I just wanted to be able to use dd/dts on my live card with the kx drivers... I'm sure there's a way to have this implemented but as the team says, they have no hardware to test this on yet. Maybe somebody should mail them an old dd/dts reciever? ;p

Oscar · Dec 27, 2002, 12:35 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Oscar
In my situation, all PCM signals (including Dolby Digital and DTS) are pass through a Digital DIN connection from my SB Live! 5.1 to the receiver of my Inspire 5700 Digital. I couldn't hear anything from the speakers when I tried the kX Drivers last time around......

Correction: In my situation, all signals (including PCM, Dolby Digital, and DTS) are pass through a Digital DIN connection from my SB Live! 5.1 to the receiver of my Inspire 5700 Digital. I couldn't hear anything from the speakers when I tried the kX Drivers last time around......

Oscar · Dec 27, 2002, 12:38 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by davemann
Once again, your feedback on the subject is appreciated, but this is not quite where I meant this topic to go in the first place... I just wanted to be able to use dd/dts on my live card with the kx drivers... I'm sure there's a way to have this implemented but as the team says, they have no hardware to test this on yet. Maybe somebody should mail them an old dd/dts reciever? ;p

I know...... and sorry about that

Hopefully kX Drivers will support DD/DTS direct passthrough for all of us, soon

SEK · Jun 30, 2004, 12:30 PM

So, is it yet not possible to pass the AC3 Stream through without decoding?
Here on my machine ( SB Live 5.1 Digital - latest driver? ) it still doesn´t work...
(digital output selected, AC3 Passthrough: SPDIF1)

**dj_stick** · Jun 30, 2004, 06:35 PM

currently passthrough is unsupported on the Live! models… should be coming in a future version

SEK · Jul 1, 2004, 10:53 AM

I really hope so, because I can´t use the normal SB! Live Drivers any more ( when Audio HQ is installed I can´t open it because of an unknown Error )...
buggy shit!

Alessandro82 · Aug 13, 2004, 01:30 PM

I failed to connect my audigy2...... what should I do 4 decode ac3 with my external decoder???