Hardware mixer patch to KX

ROBSCIX · Jun 23, 2005, 05:27 PM

Hey, I got a Hardware mixer awhile ago, I use this with KX, I don't really know how to patch it beyond the basics. Do any of you guys who use mixers have any links of the more exotic ways of patching external mixers to soundcards to improve functionality. FOr instance I have channel FX inserts on each channel so couldn't I use this insert as a discrete channel output to put to another line in? as I added another KX compatible card recently so I have another line....etc...So can you guys point me to Mixer info, the book that comes with the mixer is of no use. I just want a bunch of links that will help me get the most out of this device as it now is a permanant part of my studio. Hey Dj_stick DOn't you use an external mixer? DO you have any links for me that may help me with the fine points. I am slowly building up my studio so I want as much knowledge as I can get on this device. Thx in advance for any help you may give me..

Nappylady · Jun 23, 2005, 10:18 PM

My favorite way is to use the channel insert jacks to send to and receive from the soundcard. There is a small latency, especially if you use ASIO, but to have access to all the parametric EQ's, reverbs, amp sims, etc., that a computer can give you--and you can configure it completely per-channel! And no expensive rack equipment.

You can use the FX sends on your mixer to go into the line in (for example, aux 1 on left for a reverb, and aux 2 on right for a separate mix with speaker corrections) and the line outs going back into the fx returns, so your kX sound card acts as a standalone effects box... that can be fun.

I have a second computer powered with kX that I use for a main channel insert, to add distortion. (Distortion on the main channel? WTF?) I find that, since my sound system plays so loud and so clean, the kids always ask for me to turn it up. However, if I add a little soft clipping distortion using my "compander" plugin (look in the Effects / DSP forum in the "Transfer Function?" thread for the link) and since it *sounds* louder, the kids think it's loud enough.

When I get around to doing drum mic'ing and drum recording, I plan to use the compander as a limiter on the drums. It really adds a lot of energy to them; makes them sound really punchy and hot.

These are just a couple of configuration options... the sky's the limit, really...

ROBSCIX · Jun 24, 2005, 01:20 PM

OK, So I have a 12 Channel External Mixer so in "Theory" I could have 12 Discrete inputs into a system? by using the FX inserts?..OK That makes sense and I thought I could do that but I wanted a second opinion...so no links? etc... I am gonna snap in another KX compatible card for now to play with but I think as I progress I am gonna add a Delta 1010LT to my system for recording...so I could patch each channel on my mixer to a seperate discrete channel on the M-audio sound card, Now That would definatley have it's uses. That will be WAY down the road though given the price of such a sound card..so for now I am just using the KX cards.....So any other info you can point me to?

**dj_stick** · Jun 24, 2005, 09:43 PM

i have a small external mixer, two main outs and an fx out, so that's three possible inputs to kX for me

Nappylady · Jun 25, 2005, 09:01 AM

Basically, what you need to remember is that any line output can safely go into the sound card, and any line input can take output from the sound card. (Mic inputs may not handle output from sound cards, because they expect a very low-level signal. Depending on the preamp, it might work.)

I'm actually looking, myself, at buying a sound card with ADAT inputs and outputs, and outboard AD/DA converters, for up to 16 or even 24 channels of inserted goodness... the price is immense, as you said... so it will probably be a long time before I finally get to it.

The worst part about such a setup is that it would be kX incompatible. The kX sound cards would have to find a new computer to live in, and many current uses would no longer be available. I'm not sure how I'd live with that.

ROBSCIX · Jun 25, 2005, 12:20 PM

Well, I have been looking of course at the M-audio line but Hoontech and Terratech have some NICE soundcards..like the DSP MKII with digital daughter board. Beautiful piec of technolgy for recording. See if I did add another high end card I will still keep the KX card in here for effects and such. LIke price to performance ratio the card makes a awsome effects processor, if viewed in the light. I could just use the line_in & line_out patched to the channel insert on whatever channel I want all the effects put on. I just got another KX card as well. So in the future I will still kep my KX cards, I will just use them as very powerful and configurable Effects processors....

BTW, SO i am correct in thinking I can use the individual channel inserts to feed the sound card correct? So as I said above if my mixer is 12 channels then using the Channel insert I essentially have 12 discrete inputs? Is this correct? That great.

Nappylady · Jun 25, 2005, 08:10 PM

*sigh*

If I had it my way... I would make a card with 2 EMU10k2 chips on it, and outboard 32 channels of I/O. I would put some RAM onboard so the card didn't have to use system RAM for anything... and of course, it would be powered by kX :-)

I've looked at the Frontier Dakota, MOTU and a couple others... what I want to do eventually will require *LOTS* of ins and outs, so ADAT or Firewire is a minimum requirement.

I know people who are getting along just fine with their 8-channel interfaces and smaller.... and I guess I do okay with 6 inputs... sure would like 16 tho :-)

EDIT: To answer your question, YES, if you take your line-level signal out of the insert jacks, you will have 12 discrete signals to feed into your mixer! That makes it nice for tracking things, since microphones will not be mixed together; if there's a problem with one, you can mute that one and not have to redo the whole mix. This makes things WAY nicer.

You can also get your signals from the Direct Outs, if your mixer has those jacks. The difference is that direct out jacks will be post-EQ and post-fader, where insert jacks will be pre-EQ and pre-fader. In a studio setting, you'll probably prefer direct-outs; but in a live situation, you will definitely need the insert method; the level changes that are required for live sound would appear in the recording, and you could not pull them back out.

There are so many ways to patch a mixer in, and there's no "right" way--but isn't that the best part!

ROBSCIX · Jun 26, 2005, 11:14 AM

I want the Delta 1010LT, 10 channels of input 10 channels of output. Thats what I am gonna use to patch my mixer to my PC. I will leave in both of my KX card if I can get them all to play nice. I will use the KX card for effects processors. Make a bunch of patches for them. That idea just came to me. I will put the KX cards on the channel FX inserts..that should work. Then I will have two 16/48 easily configurable effects processors to use for my recording. SInce all the effects are handled by the 10K1 chips the PC is free for recording. .Well thats how it's supposed to work in theory but I don't think it will be as easy as that. IF not then I will add another PC just to hold the Kx cards for effects. Maybe get an LCD to put over my Mixer to show the DSP windo of both cards...dreaming..lol

Thanks for telling me about the inserts I figure it would work that way but I wasn't sure..but I thought Line level is line level and each channel has an insert so I musut be able to patch each channel to a recording input. Direct outs?..nope don't have them..this is an old Yorkville powered mixer very large..but it looks so nice in my studio. all it has is mains out(500Watts Powered)-don't use em..tape out, sub-mix out..And channel FX inserts..I don't have it right here...but now after talking to you I see I have lots of posibilities...