sb22x - no rear and/or center/lfe output

**Eugene Gavrilov** · Jan 23, 2005, 07:25 PM

hello guys,

there were a lot of threads dealing with lack of rear output on the newer SB22x cards.
since I don't have this hardware, I cannot solve this issue without your input.
that's why I suggest you help me fix this bug by downloading 3538h (find a link on this forum) and visit this thread: http://driverheaven.net/showthread.php?t=46931

---
please note: this thread applies to you ONLY if you have SB22X model (open 'about...' dialog box and check). any unrelated comments will be removed.
---

after you install 3538h, please let me know if it solves your issue. if not, please follow the recommendations found in the thread above and let me know if this helps.
---
if you provide any report, please post the following information: your card model, your ac97 codec as identified by kX Mixer -- do NOT post the -whole- hardware/software configuration, since this would make this thread unreadable.
example:
card: sb22x
pci subsys: 80661102 ChipRev: a
Unknown AC97 codec [83847658
---

before 3538h was out, the following information was known to solve the issue:
In 'kxctrl' write to 0x5f EMU register value 0x33 [kX Console --- sptr 5f 0 33], and in kX DSP panel insert 'epilog_k1' and connect out13 and out14 to outputs 'rearl' 'rearr' from 'suround'.

Please note that Creative seem to have released several SB22x cards with different ac97 codecs -- that's why the particular solution might not work for you. In 3538h the driver should initialize the device properly: it should set '0x5f' register to '0x33' [check this by issuing 'gptr 5f 0' in the console], and should re-map out8,out9 to out13 and out14. your card might also require additional ac97 initialization

Eugene

Russ · Jan 27, 2005, 01:18 PM

I have a newer sb22x (sb0228) card and would like to know if this issue effects me.

Card: SB022x 10k1 [a000]
PCI Information: Device: 21102 Subsys: 80661102 ChipRev: a
Codec name: Unk AC97-codec [83847658]

I am using 3538h currently, but unfortunately I do not have a surround sound setup (2 analog speakers currently) to test with. What is the best way to test for this problem (is it a problem with the rear channel in all configurations, or is it only when used in 5.1 mode. Also, is it only with music that contains 5.1?, etc. Can I simply plug into the jack for the rear channels and then use the swap front rear channel option to test with?) I would happy to test this for you with my card, but want to be sure that I am testing for the right problem.

*** EDIT ***
I did some basic testing. I connected a pair of speakers to the rear channels (sorry I have nothing to test center with) and tested using the kX speaker test and a THX test mp3 (kX set to 5.1). As far as I could tell, I had no sound in the rear speakers at all using the default DSP setup. Then I modified the register as per above and that did not seem to do anything. I then loaded epilog_k1 and made the rear channel connections, and then I seemed to have sound in both front and rear channels. I then rebooted and tried loading epilog_k1 and making the connections for the rear channels, without modifying any registers and again seemed to have both front and rear channels working. So it seems that with my card, I do need need to modify any registers, but still must use epilog_k1 for the rear channel connections. I wish a had a 5.1 speaker setup for proper testing but hopefully this info will help. Feel free to edit this post so that only the info that you need is here.

Out of curiosity (after further reboots) I checked the value of register '0x5F', and it seems it's value is '0x33'. As I am unsure of what the value was originally, I am not sure if that value "stuck" from when I first modified the register or not (I tried a 'reset' and it's value is still '0x33'). After each reboot, I need to reconnect the rear outs to epilog_k1 as those connections do not stick. Additionally I noticed that none of the volume sliders appear to effect the rear channels (Master Volume and Analog Rear).

Darth Valium · Jan 27, 2005, 06:27 PM

[source]SB022x 10k1 [ac00]
Device: 21102 Subsys: 100a1102 ChipRev: a
Codec name: Unk AC97-codec [83847658][/source]

don't have to reinitalize, but after a reboot ive to reconnect x4 to epilogk1.

with that rear sound seems to work.

edit:

ive messed around with some other drivers, got disappointed and returned to the kx. unfortunately now my rear-speaker dont work anymore, even with reproducing each step ive done two days ago to get them (succesfully) working.

----
unchecking "swap front/rear" solved this. *sigh*

Vasco da Gama · Jan 29, 2005, 12:13 AM

[source]SB022x 10k1 [ac00]
Device: 21102 Subsys: 100a1102 ChipRev: a
Codec name: Unk AC97-codec [83847658]

do you ear center speaker in the speaker test?

does it work anyway?

tks

Russ · Jan 31, 2005, 05:45 AM

Here's something strange. With the default DSP setup (rear speakers normally not working), if I play midi files, there is sound from the rear speakers? It seems to bleed in from the front channels and I cannot make it stop (nor can I control the volume). Changing kX to different speaker settings (i.e. 2.1, etc) doesn't help, and I tried disconnecting all connections to epilog except for the front analog connections and sound still came from the rear speakers (and front speakers). I am not sure if it did this with the previous version's of kX or with the Creative drivers, as (like I said above in my first post) I did not previously have 4 speakers connected to notice, but it definitely does not seem right.

Here is my hardware info again (and again I am using kX 3538h):
Card: SB022x 10k1 [a000]
PCI Information: Device: 21102 Subsys: 80661102 ChipRev: a
Codec name: Unk AC97-codec [83847658]

Russ · Jan 31, 2005, 06:09 PM

Here is some more info. I was playing around with kX, trying to see if I could figure out what was going on. I went into the kX Router and turned up the Send C and Send D amounts for Wave 0/1, and after doing so, wav/mp3, etc also used the rear speakers. At some point kX Mixer crashed, at which point I no longer had any sound in my rear speakers. I then did a full shut down/power off/reboot, and still could not get any sound from my rear speakers at all (using methods that worked previously). Then I did a 'Reset Global Settings', and 'Reset Device Settings'. This seemed to fix whatever happened when kX crashed. I then reset kX to use 5.1 and unchecked the swap front and rear option, and re-loaded epilog_k1, etc, and again had sound in my rear speakers. I then repeated my previous tests. I reintialized the DSP, so it is using defaults, and reset the mixer to 5.1 mode (which again had rear speakers not working). I then played a midi file and again had sound in rear speakers. I then turned down the Send C and D amounts (in kX Router) for the Midi Synths, and restarted the midi (turning the Send amounts back down does not completely kill the rear speakers, you have to stop and restart the song), and this time it did not use the rear speakers. I then again turned up the Send amounts and again had sound in the rear speakers. I repeated the same tests with Wave 0/1 and had the same results. So it seems the somehow that turning up Send C and Send D amounts (again in kX Router) for any of the FXBus's causes sound to bleed into the rear speakers, from that FxBus (even if only the Front Speakers are connected in the DSP, for that matter, even if there are no connections to epilog at all).

Hope this info helps.
- Russ

Den_VS · Feb 5, 2005, 04:51 PM

think i found losted REAR CHANELS for 3538g

asio out 13 & asio out 14

more than that - seems dsp/router uses line 13 & 14 for fx

this isn't normal "0/1"..."8/9" Devices, can be found for multichannel playback, but all 6 channels are realy work !

kellson · Feb 11, 2005, 10:19 PM

SB022x 10k1 [c000]
PCI Information:
Device: 21102 Subsys: 80661102 ChipRev: a
Card HAS AC97 codec
Codec name: Unk AC97-codec [83847658]

Hello, this is my card info. I found that when I use epiloglt_k1 and connect the sL and sR to the out_13 and out_14, the rear output will work. But cannt change the vol in the mixer. When I check the microcode, the id like 0xd & oxe? but in epilog they named as out31 and RecL...

and there is another problem, i cant update the microcodes in epilog, it shows "(47): error S100: unknown character '('"

But no problem to update the codes epiloglt_k1...

dialcee · Feb 18, 2005, 05:23 AM

Hi, these are my specs:

Code:

----Hardware / Software configuration---------------
Driver Name:kX Audio Driver (Debug)
Driver Date: Dec 21 2004 05:59:43
Driver Version: 5.10.00.3538 - debug
DB Name:none
SB0222 10k1 [9000]
PCI Information: 
Device: 21102 Subsys: 80651102 ChipRev: a
Card has MPU device
Card model is '5.1'
Card HAS AC97 codec
	Codec name: SigmaTel STAC9708
	3D Extension: SigmaTel 3D Enhancement
	Codec is 2.0 compliant
	Capabilities[6940]	 :
	DAC resolutions  : -16-bit- -18-bit-
	ADC resolutions  : -16-bit- -18-bit-
	Ext Capabilities [80]: -PCM surround DAC-
Port: 9000 Irq: 0xa(10)
Playback buffer: 20a0
Record buffer: 4000
Number of AC3 buffers: 4
Tank memory: 256 kb
GSIF buffer: 256 samples
OS version: [2 5 1 Service Pack 2; 2 5 1 Service Pack 2; 156 148]

I don't have a 5.1 audio system but I moved my headphones from one plug to another and I can say that using the test applet I can hear correctly the sounds, with default DSP configuration and 5.1 direct speaker configuration.

Russ · Mar 15, 2005, 03:00 AM

I have more info to report.

I created a small plugin whose only purpose was to output to the Front and Rear channels of my card (I left out the center/LFE because I do not have a center speaker, or a seperate subwoofer to test those channels) to get rid of the need of loading epilog and epiloglt_k1 at the same time..
i.e.
macints KX_OUT(0x0), 0x0, inL, 0x4;
macints KX_OUT(0x1), 0x0, inR, 0x4;
macints KX_OUT(0xd), 0x0, insL, 0x4;
macints KX_OUT(0xe), 0x0, insR, 0x4;

Anyway, I can report that, I was able to completely unload epilog, and use this plugin to get sound in both the front and rear channels. Additionally, since I did not need epilog loaded at the same time, the connections lasted through a reboot. And last, it also seemed to resolve that strange issue involving the Send C and Send D settings I mentioned previously.

-Russ

LZ1GJD · Mar 15, 2005, 11:50 AM

---
Driver Name:kX Audio Driver (Debug)
Driver Date: Feb 17 2004 00:43:22
Driver Version: 5.10.00.3537 - debug
DB Name:none
kX Generic [e800]
PCI Information:
Device: 21102 Subsys: 100a1102 ChipRev: a
Card has MPU device
Card HAS AC97 codec
Codec name: Unknown AC97 codec [83847658
3D Extension: SigmaTel 3D Enhancement
Codec is 2.0 compliant
Capabilities[6a90] : -headphone out-
DAC resolutions : -16-bit- -20-bit-
ADC resolutions : -16-bit- -20-bit-
Ext Capabilities [bc7]: -var rate PCM audio- -2x PCM audio out- -PCM center DAC- -PCM surround DAC- -PCM LFE DAC- -slot/DAC mappings-
Port: e800 Irq: 0x10(16)
Playback buffer: 20a0
Record buffer: 4000
Number of AC3 buffers: 4
Tank memory: 256 kb
GSIF buffer: 256 samples
OS version: [2 5 0 Service Pack 4; 2 5 0 Service Pack 4; 156 148]
---
It is a SB Live! 5.1 Digital (SB0220) card and for KX 3537 "kxctrl -sptr 5f 0 33" does the trick, only need a permanent connection to the epiloglt_k1 but until a solution is found I will use the "kxctrl -mc" command. I got no 5.1 multispeaker setup but instead I have connected front speakers to my headphones and rears to my stereo system, so I can play two different audio sources which is quite useful.

Russ · Mar 15, 2005, 04:53 PM

More info:

I tested Center/LFE using stereo headphones, and can confirm that all 6 channles work (in analog mode anyway, using the kX Speaker test, set to 5.1, Surround On, and Use subwoofer output).

On my test plugin, I added the six speaker channels (fronts, rears, and center/lfe), and WinMM recording, and the 16 Asio channels.
WiMM appears to works.
All 16 Asio channels seem to work. (asio 1 and 2 however affect the center and lfe channels. It basically seems to knock them out (just by be included in the plugin). However if I double connect the Center/LFE channels to Center/LFE Outs and Asio 1 and 2 (i.e. Surrounder Center Out to Center Out and Asio 1, and Surrounder LFE Out to LFE Out and Asio 2), then the Center/LFE channels work once again. So it seems it is possible to have all 6 speaker channels, and all 16 asio channels (by either double conecting the Center/LFE as I explained, or having a toggle in the interface, to use asio 1 and 2, or center/lfe (and then updating the microcode accordingly), thus allowing me to choose how I want to set it up, etc).

-Russ

Lex Nahumury · Mar 15, 2005, 08:16 PM

Quote:

asio 1 and 2 however affect the center and lfe channels

This is the well known 'asio mapping issue' found on most 10k1 5.1 cards.

/LeMury

mistan · Mar 27, 2005, 11:53 PM

uhhh

so where's this plugin?

i want to use it!!!!
if you already told me how to do it in the post....then i dont understand because i dont get all this tech mumbo jumbo about kx

Russ · Mar 29, 2005, 10:31 AM

BTW: That unknown AC97 codec that kX Reports (for my card anyway: info posted above) is (according to the chip on my card): SIGMATEL STAC9758T

http://www.sigmatel.com/documents/stac9758-pb-2-0.pdf
http://www.sigmatel.com/documents/stac9758ds-1-0.pdf

The 10K1 chip is: EMU10K1-JFF

mistan,
That plugin is just something I made for my own testing, it is not available to other user's at the moment.

-Russ

Russ · Mar 30, 2005, 08:53 AM

More info:
According to the manual above for SIGMATEL STAC9758, AC97 Register 36h should be Center/LFE Volume and AC97 Register 38h should be Surround Volume. However, if I write 0x8080 to AC97 register 36h, it mutes the Surround Channels, and if I write 0x8080 to AC97 regster 38h, it mutes the Center/LFE channels. That would seem to indicate that something is not right.

-Russ

BTW:
The way the registers use the SPLITMUTE setting (when setting the mute bits of the above registers) is swapped as well, so it appears that those two registers are just swapped from what it says in the docs, and 36h is for Surround Volume, and 38h is for Center/LFE volume (i.e. The SPLITMUTE setting does not affect CENTER/LFE volume, as in the description in the docs, just the registers numbers are swapped).

Russ · Apr 1, 2005, 11:17 AM

BTW: My card is a SB0228 and not a SB0220 like I previously thought (my pcb and sticker on the card indicate SB0220, but my S/N (C6SB0228...) and Creative indicate that it is an SB0228). I thought this info might be useful in trying to determine which sb022x models have STAC9758T vs STAC9708 vs EMicro UNKNOWN (4328), although I am sure that the AC97 Codec string tells you that anyway.

mistan · Apr 2, 2005, 07:06 AM

well can you let me have it anyways?

plz

Russ · Apr 5, 2005, 03:22 PM

I do not have digital speakers to test with but I can tell you what happens when I toggle DOO mode (On) with the (six) analog speakers.

Using the following connections from Surrounder to physical outs.
Surrounder settings: 5.1, Surround On, Use Subwoofer output (enabled), Bass Redirection (enabled).
fl

KX_OUT(0x0)
KX_OUT(0x2)

fr

KX_OUT(0x1)
KX_OUT(0x3)

sl

KX_OUT(0xd)

sr

KX_OUT(0xe)

Center

KX_OUT(0x11)
KX_OUT(0x4)

LFE

KX_OUT(0x12)
KX_OUT(0x5)

When I enable DOO mode:
Analog Front speakers are muted.
Analog Rear speakers still function normally (probably due to AC97 36h and 38h appearing to be reversed).
Static (buzz) and music in Analog Center/LFE speakers.

I am not sure how it is supposed to function, but I would think that the above observations show that something is not correct with DOO mode.

I hope this is useful as I have not seen any reports regarding the digital outputs as of yet.

-Russ

BTW: Most of the sound heard in the Analog Center/LFE when in DOO mode appears to be from the connection (fL and fR) to KX_OUT(0x2) and KX_OUT(0x3).

Russ · Apr 7, 2005, 02:06 PM

I just noticed that the datasheet for STAC9758 is no longer available from Sigmatel's website (at least it is not there right now), I wonder if they are updating/making corrections...

Russ · Apr 7, 2005, 10:39 PM

I made a very basic test plugin for sb022x cards with STAC9758 (Unk AC97-codec [83847658]... as reported by kX) available for download.
The plugin is for kX version 3538 (should be used with 3538h).
You can get it here.

Here are what I believe the connections should be:
--------------------------------------
fL -> Analog Front Left
fR -> Analog Front Right
spdif_fL -> Digital Front Left
spdif_fR -> Digital Front Right
spdif_ctr -> Digital Center
spdif_lfe -> Digital LFE
ldhp_L -> LiveDrive Headphone Left (not sure if this is needed with these cards)
ldhp_R -> LiveDrive Headphone Right (not sure if this is needed with these cards)
sL -> Analog Rear Left and Digital Rear Left
sR -> Analog Rear Right and Digital Rear Right
center -> Analog Center
lfe -> Analog LFE
mme_L -> WinMME recording Left
mme_R -> WinMME recording Right
asio00 -> Asio Connections (1 and 2 are not available)
asio03
...
asio15
--------------------------------------

-Russ

BTW: There are two versions of the plugin available. they are exactly the same, except one is set at x4 (level) and the other includes basic volume controls.

Fwnk · Apr 8, 2005, 07:31 AM

It says: Invalid Plugin (Ongeldige plugin in dutch)

Russ · Apr 8, 2005, 11:30 AM

@Fwnk
Looking at another post (that you just made) it appears that you are still using version 3537. The plugin is for 3538.

uber.n00b · Apr 9, 2005, 03:57 PM

SB0222 10k1 [d000]
PCI Information: Device: 21102 Subsys: 80651102
ChipRev: a Card has MPU device
------------------------------------

I didn't know what to input so I ctrl+v it

I have the same problem. Don't have any sound in rear channel. Only in front/center. I may switch to rear, but then I don't have sound in front

Russ · Apr 9, 2005, 04:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by uber.n00b

SB0222 10k1 [d000]
PCI Information: Device: 21102 Subsys: 80651102
ChipRev: a Card has MPU device
------------------------------------

You did not include the codec in your above information.
i.e.
Codec name: Unk AC97-codec [83847658]

I am guessing by your chipset that your codec is STAC9708, and if so, you should not have a problem with your rear speakers.

Quote:

I have the same problem. Don't have any sound in rear channel. Only in front/center. I may switch to rear, but then I don't have sound in front

Did you test this using the speaker test, or just by playing music (it sounds like you did not set Surrounder to 5.1 and Surround on)?

uber.n00b · Apr 10, 2005, 07:19 AM

Card HAS AC97 codec
Codec name: EMicro UNKNOWN
3D Extension: No 3D Stereo Enhancement
Codec is 2.0 compliant
Capabilities[140] :
DAC resolutions : -16-bit- -18-bit-
ADC resolutions : -16-bit- -18-bit-
Ext Capabilities [280]: -PCM surround DAC- -slot/DAC mappings-
Port: d000 Irq: 0xf(15)
Playback buffer: 20a0
Record buffer: 4000
Number of AC3 buffers: 4
Tank memory: 256 kb
GSIF buffer: 256 samples

Surrounder set to 5.1 and Surround on. In Speaker Test, everything's fine, but only in this test.

Russ · Apr 10, 2005, 02:54 PM

Is that Emicro Unknown (4328)?
I am unusure what codec that is, but I do remember reading a previous message from someone with EMicro Unknown (4328), that reported that the rear speakers did work with that codec. If the speaker test worked, then it would seem to be some configuration issue that is making it appear to not work when playing music. Check volume and mute settings for the rear channels, etc. Check the configuration of the software you are using for playback, and make sure that it is configured properly (if it has it's own configuration settings), etc. Look in Sounds and Audio Devices/Mutlimedia Properties, and make sure that Sound Playback, etc, is configured properly.

mistan · Apr 12, 2005, 11:57 PM

im not getting anything from the rear either
sounds like the center is bleeding into the rear though
:/

Russ · Apr 13, 2005, 06:08 AM

mistan, I still do not know any information about your setup, and it is hard to provide help without that info.
i.e.
Which sound card you have.
What type of speakers you are using (analog vs digital).
What version of kX you are using.
etc.

BTW: You can look in "kX Manager -> About" to find out some information about your sound card (scroll down and look under <Hardware / Software configuration>).

mistan · Apr 13, 2005, 12:58 PM

Sorry, i didnt know how to get the info.

----Hardware / Software configuration---------------
Driver Name:kX Audio Driver (Debug)
Driver Date: Dec 21 2004 05:59:43
Driver Version: 5.10.00.3538 - debug
DB Name:none
SB022x 10k1 [c000]
PCI Information:
Device: 21102 Subsys: 80661102 ChipRev: a
Card has MPU device
Card model is '5.1'
Card HAS AC97 codec
Codec name: SigmaTel STAC9708
3D Extension: SigmaTel 3D Enhancement
Codec is 2.0 compliant
Capabilities[6940] :
DAC resolutions : -16-bit- -18-bit-
ADC resolutions : -16-bit- -18-bit-
Ext Capabilities [80]: -PCM surround DAC-
Port: c000 Irq: 0x6(6)
Playback buffer: 1ff8
Record buffer: 4000
Number of AC3 buffers: 4
Tank memory: 256 kb
GSIF buffer: 256 samples
OS version: [2 5 1 Service Pack 2; 2 5 1 Service Pack 2; 156 148]
----------------------------------------------------

Im using analog speakers.
And KX 3538.