Rivera

Hello gentlemen (and ladies?), here are some images of the new E-MU 1212m audio boards. There is a rumor going around that the E-DSP chip in the 1212m might be a disguised audigy 10kx. What do you fellas think? Is Creative/E-MU sticking it to us once more, or are they this time offering us a really "brand new" and totally different product? What are your opinions on the E-DSP chip? Maybe Eugene or anyone knowledgeable in this area can fill us in. Comments are greatly apreciated. Thank you.

Link to other forum on this topic:

http://forum.rightmark.org/topic.cgi?id=4:472

E-MU 1212m high resolution close-up board images:

http://www.fixup.net/pictures/1212m1.jpg

http://www.fixup.net/pictures/1212m2.jpg

Rivera

dj_stick

there was a thread earlier that mentioned that you have to uninstall all audigy and audigy 2 device drivers b4 you could use the card, so i think that is evidence towards to 10k2 chip

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meroveus

The fact that the E-DSP chip is not sample-locked to 48k, but can use 44.1k and mix and pass through higher rates is evidence against it being an E-Mu 10k2.
Furthermore, E-Mu states on the website "NO resampling".

Also, the chip apparently has no support for hardware soundfonts, but a software player must be used.

wilho

How is that a fact? I wouldn't rely on marketing information. If I recall, they said same thing with audigy when it arrived.

What kind of support does emu10kx chip itself have for soundfonts?

Rivera

Some guy on a forum suggested installing the KX Drivers on the E-MU 1212m to see what would happen and this was the result:

This is a quote from a person who was one of the first to purchase the E-MU 1212m:

"The KX driver saw it as a EMUAPS device, installed and appears to work. RMAA appears to work with it to. However, no sound comes out or goes into the card."

This is the link, it's the 13th post from the top.


http://forum.rightmark.org/topic.cgi?id=4:472-2


There you go guys. If this is true, we've been swindled by Creative Tech once more.

meroveus

and Surely you can all spot this glaring paradox ???




Um... how so have we been swindled ???

Daniel Drummond

I read in another thread here in KX forum, that the card's documentation states that it resamples audio internally to 48khz... Maybe you should download the manual and read it to confirm that (or not).

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meroveus

From here: Creative Professional EMU 1820 info
Eugene stated this:
"although this new card seems to be quite good, read its manual / installation documents carefully:
the card supports DSP effects only in 16\48 mode"

Either we are reading different manuals, or he didn't follow his own advice!

I have.

I have been trying to sort out the BS from the facts these past few weeks so I can look at buying one of these cards. I haven't been helped by E-Mu's cone of silence!!

The E-Mu website and E-Mu's tech support say: NO RESAMPLING!
Nowhere in the manual does it state the DSP will only do 48kHz.
Instead, the manual says this:
"PatchMix DSP can run at 44.1kHz,48kHz, 96kHz, or 192kHz, but its complete set of features are only available at 44.1kHz or 48kHz"

Sounds clear enough to me!

Rivera

Meaning of the word "swindle":

1. To cheat or defraud of money.
2. To obtain money by fraudulent means.
3. To practice fraud as a means of obtaining money.
4. The act or an intention of fraud.
5. To take money from by fraud or deceit.
6. To cheat.
7. To missinform customers of a product or servive that is not, and in so doing cause loss of money.


Might be a harsh word, but after the collapse of major business institutions and the way they swayed pleople into buying in before their downfall, I think "swindle" is an acceptable and an appropriate word. Also, the reason why we are using the KX Drivers is because we have been lied to and made to constantly buy a supposed "new" card with "new" specs(example: audigy series of cards up to the ZS and maybe even the 1212m!) every time they decide to meet their quota. I would say we've been defrauded.


Rivera

Daniel Drummond

What do they mean by " its complete set of features are only available at 44.1kHz or 48kHz"?

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Emu 1212m | XP mobile 1600+2300mhz/400mhz fsb | Abit NF7 nforce2 Ultra 400 | 2x256mb Value DDR 400mhz | Prototype ATI Mobility Radeon 9000 chip in AGP card 64mb DDR won at Rage3d contest!) | Seagate 200gb 8mb and Maxtor 80gb 2mb 7200rpm HDs | Nec 3500a dvd-r | Motorola 56k fax-modem | Realtek RTL8180 Wireless NIC | 450w Generic PSU. Other: Acoustic Piano, Ensoniq ASR-88, Alesis QS6, Mackie 1202VLZ mixer, AT3035 mic, Behringer VX2496 ultravoice, Alesis Monitor One MK2 Active Monitors, ATHM40fx headphones.

RIV@NVX

It is probably as 10k2, with support for DSP effects at 44.1kHz.

meroveus

No.

As you know (or may not know), the effects processor is just one part of the 10k1 and 10k2 chips. It operates currently at a fixed rate of 48k times per second. ie. 48000 times a second, the microcode instructions are processed.
My guess is that E-Mu and Creative cannot get this chip running at 96k or 192k times per second.
Hardly surprising when you consider it is like trying to overclock a 3Ghz P4 to run at 6GHz or even 12GHz. Ain't no way Jose!

We know that E-Mu has disabled the SRC circuits inside the chip.
We also know that EVERY other part of the chip will now operate at 192k sample rates. But for some reason, the effects processor will not operate reliably at high speeds.
Since E-Mu are looking into the possibility of having effects at 96k and 192k, it means one of two things:
a) these chips are early samples rushed to market, and the next revision will operate at higher rates
b) The effects will operate with a software driver.

a) seems more likely to me, since Creative can use such a chip for the new Audigies. Having the whole chip able to run at 192kHz simplifies programming drivers, and positions both companies nicely for when Intel's new audio standard (to replace AC97) hits the streets.

If you know any different, I will be glad to hear it.

But please stop dissing the 10k chips. They are fabulous, and the reason us (most of us) are here. The only fault is they are presently locked at 48k, but the E-Mu chip can now operate natively at 44.1 as well as 48k. Hopefully, the next version will operate seamlessly at all rates up to 192kHz.

This of course is wasted on me, since I exclusively use 48/16. When I get one of the new E-Mu cards, I will stick solely to 44.1/24

It would be nice for Eugene or Max to give their considered opinions about the chip internals here.

<edited to correct spelling >

pyncell

there is only one kind of crystalosylaters in that card, an osylator normally for the 48/96/192khz sounddsp, so i believe there is 44-48 resampling in the chipset. fortunately, the resampling is high quality, if the rightmark.org bbs' test is true.

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pyncell

i maybe miss another two crystalosylators for 44/88/176khz sampling,

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JCGuomp

obviously your information was incorrect.

According to this post by ICHi(from E-MU) and the following post by Fixup, this card do have two crystal oscillators for different sample rate.

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