steffes

[COLOR=#333333]May be someone asked that before.[/COLOR]
[COLOR=#333333]I have linked the Live-card and the Audigy- card together. [/COLOR]
[COLOR=#333333]Can I just put a cable from Audigy 1 pinout to the Audigy 2 ZS card, or is this not possible.[/COLOR]
[COLOR=#333333]If its possible, wich pinout from Audigy card do I have to connect to the Audigy 2 ZS card and wich SPDIF in port at the Audigy 2 ZS card do I have to use?[/COLOR]

[COLOR=#333333]Thanks a lot [/COLOR]

Doug W

The Audigy 2 ZS only has 2 SPDIF Ins. One is at pin 5 of the AD_EXT connector and the other is CD_SPDIF connector. You could use any of the Audigy 1 SPDIF outs

You can use any of the Audigy 1 SPDIF outs to connect to the Audigy 2 ZS
08 GND Ground
09 SPDIFO#3 SPDIF Out signal

17 SPDIFO#0 SPDIF Out signal
18 GND Ground

19 SPDIFO#1 SPDIF Out signal
20 GND Ground

21 GND Ground
22 SPDIFO#2 SPDIF Out signal

However, if you are going for maximum analog inputs, you are better off making a second input for each Audigy card:
Build a second analog input for your Audigy-Schematic

Use the Audigy 1 as master (since it has the most analog inputs) and hook the Live and the Audigy 2 ZS into the Audigy 1. That would give you 10 analog inputs.
==================================================
Pinouts for the Audigy 2 ZS (AD_EXT) and Audigy 1 and Live (AUD_EXT) are here:
Soundblaster Live!, Audigy 1/2 and X-Fi* Pinouts

steffes

Thanks a lot.
Is it right, that the SPDIF in at Audigy 1 card is pinout number 6 and at Audigy 2 ZS is number 5 ?

So long

Doug W

Pinouts for most of the cards are shown here

Soundblaster Live!, Audigy 1/2 and X-Fi* Pinouts

I made a mistake in the link in my previous post. I sent you a link to a drive on my computer, which you hopefully can't get to. I will edit it but here is the fixed link also with some others:

2nd input for your Audigy
Build a second analog input for your Audigy-Intro
Schematic Aux input
Build a second analog input for your Audigy-Schematic
Install 2 Sound cards
A-kX an Introduction

steffes

Hi Doug,
thank you - that´s really helpfull.
So long

monsterboxx

great thread...This clears up any issue that most other sources create. I saw a diagram that that had the digital front, rear, and headphones connected. I was thinking to myself that I can bring that down to 1 cable. I even went as far as hooking it up while it was running...This was pretty neat in the fact that I actually saw the SPDIF box pop up in the lower right corner of my screen.

My only concern is working with DSP. I have not gotten into digging around a lot and making my own that pipes inputs from My other Audigy and LIVE cards into my host audigy.

All in all I am looking for as many analog inputs as humanly possible for some live soundboard recording at concerts. I think 2 Audigys and 1 live will cut it. Just need to figure out how to get the client cards to output to my host card...If anyone has a reletively easy explination of all the processes involed, or am I up against having something piped into my soud to do some trial and error?

Doug W

These subjects are covered in the following Webpages, including setting up the DSP. There are links in there to other beginner pages on setting up custom DSPs.

1. How to get 4 mono inputs from your Audigy card.
Build a second analog input for your Audigy-Intro
2. How to link multiple cards together.
A-kX an Introduction

The links below are diagrams that are what the Webpages are in abbreviated form:
http://webpages.charter.net/drw46/kx2sc/d-kx2sc.jpg
[COLOR=#7385b8]Build a second analog input for your Audigy-Schematic[/COLOR]

Gotta go to work-I'll be back

dubmaster

Hi, those instructions are really helpful. I was wondering, would this setup allow me to have 12 outputs using two SB live 5.1 cards? I have used six outputs in the past on a single card. I did try to use two cards in the past but i could only get Cubase to utilise one of the cards using ASIO.

If this can be done would you be able to help with the DSP setup.

Many thanks

monsterboxx

I was looking at the pinout diagram for aud_ext. One question. What is the I2S Audio Data in?

I ask because I am curious if it is like another SPDIF and carries stereo lines in. as hooking up multiple cards this way would be beneficial to using sonar or cubase and not having to worry about being able to use multiple devices at once.

So an explanation of the I2S Audio data in would be great, in the meantime I will find out what I can about it on my own.

Doug W

The Audigy 1 has 3 S/PDIF inputs:
Pin
06 GP_SPDIFIN#2 SPDIF input signal
15 GP_SPDIFIN1 SPDIF Input signal
CD_SPDIF in connector

The Audigy 2ZS has 2 S/PDIF inputs:
Pin
05 SPDIF0 IN
CD_SPDIF in connector

Recording software only recognizes one ASIO card. However, you can still use the other card, the ASIO card that you choose in the ASIO control panel (HOST card), just directs all the traffic to and from the other card (CLIENT card).

If you connect 3 SPDIF cables from your HOST card SPDIF outs + nearby Gnd pin:
Pin
19 SPDIFO#1 SPDIF Out signal
22 SPDIFO#2 SPDIF Out signal
09 SPDIFO#3 SPDIF Out signal

Terminate the other end to SPDIF Input connectors in the CLIENT card:

06 GP_SPDIFIN#2 SPDIF input signal
15 GP_SPDIFIN1 SPDIF Input signal
CD_SPDIF in connector

Then you set up the custom DSP correctly and you should have your 12 outputs.

Give it a try setting up your CLIENT and HOST DSPs and if you can't get it working, post your DSPs and I or someone will help you out.

Someone else will have to jump in here. I have never used the I2S.

Maddogg6

Google I2S Audio - for more info... the skinny is - I2S is not as popular as SPDIF

The AUd_EXT - which is what you connect the LiveDrive to make it a 'platinum' version - adds 2 stereo analog inputs via the I2S inputs (I2S0 Line 2 & I2S2 Aux2)

edit:
I dont think I2S is meant to replace SPDIF - but is more of a standard for interconnecting digital audio within an enclosed/single device -

So, what you would want is an Analog to I2S convertor - or a SPDIF to I2S converter to make real world use of those pins. and I think a user by the name of TravelRec has plans to DIY /edit.

more edits:
here is a link:
kX-project support site by TravelRec.
Click on electronics then the Analog to I2S Convertot

/more edits

monsterboxx

What may help clear up my end of the ordeal is my hardware setup.

I have 2 Audigy SB0090 and 1 Live CT4780.

My current setup at the moment is

Audigy_1(Host) SPDIF #1-IN ---->SPDIF#0-OUT to Audigy_2(client_1)
CD_SPDIF ---->SPDIF#2-OUT to LIVE(client_2)

This right now would allow me to run a stereo mix from each card to its respective input on the host. effectively being able to pull signal from anything and everything. The thing I am however in need of is 1 channel-1track capability. I would then have the control I want to take it to my friend that would master it in Pro Tools. So I guess that is what I am ultamately getting at. Roughly I am looking for more than 10 analog inputs.

I get 10 from an average 3 peice band has @ 5 Drum Mics, Bass rig mic, 2 Guitar Mics, and a couple vocal. It would be ideal to have 24....anywhere between there is fine.

Also thank you for all the helpful replies, and I hope to have some live tracks to post REAL soon!

Maddogg6

yeah - when you send one card to another - its probably sub-mixed - and you loose individual mic/track capability (aka discrete channels)

Basically -each slave card, effectively is an A/D converter if the submix is not desired.
I dont think >10 discrete inputs is possible until you add some I2S convertors to your Audigy - assuming it is capable as the same # as mine. the most my A2 can do is 12 discrete mono inputs.
Also, I can use the AUX on the A2's card edge discretely if I use ProFx:ADC, most people here would use Mic and Line in as it more convenient to connect, but you loose a discrete channel this way...

edit:
From a recording engineer stand point - record all instruments individually - (at different times)
1) less mics/discrete channels needed at one time
2) no other instruments leach into the other tracks.

its how the pros record anyway, and for good reason. Rarely do they get good recordings from band playing at same time... but it has happened.

Doug W

This picture is one way to get 10 simultaneous mono inputs.

http://webpages.charter.net/drw46/examples/kx2aud.jpg

I don't know how you could get more unless you took Maddogg6's suggestion above and made an analog to I2S converter from TravelRec's site.

Russ

@Doug W.
Those are some nice diagrams!

Doug W

Thanks Russ. I can't really take credit for the sound cards. I stole those from Creative PDF manuals using Snagit.

monsterboxx

ok back to the discrete input conversation. I see that in order to have all these channels I know I have to hook up SPDIF and match up outs with ins on DSP, It also looks like the 3 card setup is knid of a waste...Unless anyone knows about what the general outputs/inputs on the AUD_EXT...Are these yet more Digital IN/OUT that I need some type of converter for or something or can I hook into those as well? I have more than enough cable to make connections I just need to know If these are usebale in any way.

The whole reason I need so many discrete channels is I would be recording live performances not just studio stuff. We have a great studio that many bands go to to get recorded some of them want live stuff and some can't afford the $100/hr+backline for this studio...

dj_stick

he GPI/GPO points on the cards aren't audio (afaik) you're stuck with just spdif

btw, each 10k2 (audigy 1/2) card has 2 stereo analogue inputs (use lex's pro fx to handle these)

so you should be able to get:
Audigy 1: 4 Mono Inputs
Live: 2 mono inputs (1 spdif connection to Audigy 1)
Audigy 2: 4 Mono Inputs (2 spdif connections to Audigy 1)

an extra 4 Mono inputs if you can make use of the I2S codecs (ie travelrec's converters)

so in total:
10 Mono Inputs using SPDIF connections
or
14 Mono Inputs using SPDIF connections & I2S connections


I myself had a 10 input system at one stage, Audigy 1, Audigy 2 ZS, and then my onboard sound for the last two inputs (instead of a Live, as in your case)

I hope this helps

__________________

monsterboxx

yeah, this helps. I am however wondering about the 4 input number you are getting. As far as I can tell physically there is on a standard Audigy/Live I see Line in, Mic, Aux_in, CD_in. Would this not theoretically get me 8 discrete channels on 1 card alone. I could from there hook in an additional 6 channels by using my 3 SPDIF inputs? Or am I missing the boat completely here?

dj_stick

due to the Ac97 codec, only one input can be used at a time, however the audigy cards use a second ADC to allow the use of two analogue inputs at once, for a total of 4 (2 ac97, 2 on the second adc, aka the "uda")

__________________

monsterboxx

wow...ok so for instance linein works alongside AUX_in...and using those will disallow me from at the same time using mic and CD_IN. I think I smell what you're steppin in there...now what is the difference between the LIVE and Audigy anything? besides the ability to use 2 analog inputs at once.

Im sorry if I seem real confused about all this. but I think I am seeing it from a different perspective. I'm not a huge electronics buff and being relatively new to this KX project I am feeling my way through this. Well knowing that I can come up with 10 with no fuss makes me feel a lot better about things as well, thanks for all the info and patience! I may have to find a way to come up with the I2S converters, but in the meantime I will forge on with 10 and be very happy and greatefull for all the help. I will post pics and samples soon.

Doug W

Using ProFX, you can use:
Left Mic in (mono) / Right Line in (mono) or vice versa,
at the same time.

The Audigy gives you the ability to record 24 bit (WDM only, not ASIO). 24 bit ASIO capability may or may not come about in the future.

You will be needing ASIO with your 2 or 3 card setup so you will be recording 16 bit / 48Khz. That's what I use and I don't feel terribly deprived not having 24 bit ASIO.

Russ

The Audigy cards have more capabilities in general, due to the 10k2 chip.

More DSP resources (can load more plugins in the DSP at same time, etc).
4 extra MIDI sends.
Some capabilities related to P16v (WaveHQ, AC3 passthru in kX, etc).

Tyrsonswood

This is a great thread,

I'm fairly new to the KX drivers and still doing my research. I've got four cards I will be using between two different machines, one for "live" recording and the other mostly for mixing those tracks later (long story as to why I want to do it this way) The recording PC, Dell GX1 700Mhz running Windows 2000, needs the most inputs, I'll be recording multiple sources (IE musicians) at the same time. The mix-down machine (Intel P4 2.8Ghz needs the best output section and noise specs. (4 speaker stereo for now. 5.1 or better some day if I go this direction) I do record direct on this machine too, but only 2 or 4 inputs at a time.

The cards I have.

SB0090 Audigy with the Drive Bay front I/O..... has firewire too.

SB0610 Audigy 4

CT4830 Live! it has the aud_ext connector but I don't have the "live drive" for it.

SB0220 Live! 5.1 (this card may or may not work. Creative drivers don't see it but KX probably will, or so I've read in other threads)

Anyways, any suggestions on the best mix / match between these 4 cards? I'll still need 4 audio inputs on the mix-down machine (I could live with 2 but 4 would be better, the SB0090 and Drive bay are in it now), and as many as possible on the recording machine. Both machines also have onboard audio but the Dell GX1 I will use for recording I doubt would have SPdif , I think my mix down system (P4 Intel board) will have that available to add to the mix.

I will be making a preamp/break out box for the Dell GX1 with as many channels as I have inputs..... sort of a DIY "mixer" that doesn't mix, but has Mic preamp, volume and maybe tone control for each channel. My knowledge would probably keep this unit all analog input with no Analog-digital converters. Trying to keep it somewhat simple but with as much capability as possible.

Any thoughts would be greatly welcome. Thanks

Doug W

I think that with the SB0090 and the breakout box you have 6 mono, simultaneous inputs. You could hook the CT4830 into the SB0090 with an SPDIF cable going from one of the SPDIF outs in the AUD_EXT connector to the CD_SPDIF in connector on the SB0090. This would give you 8 inputs for that computer.

You could put the Audigy 4 in your mixdown machine and using the AUX_IN, add a stereo in (1/8" or 1/4") for a second stereo input, then you have your 4 inputs on the mixdown machine.

Then take your SB0220 and put it in your old puter with an AMD K6/2 and 256Meg of RAM and install Puppy Linux 3.01 just for the experience.

Tyrsonswood

Thanks Doug!

So far I put the audigy4 in the mixdown P4 and the KX peak meter shows dead silent with nothing playing where the audigy1 was running at around -108 db. Sounds great and I have added line outputs on this card too, 3 stereo outs (if they are supported?) this may come in handy. I haven't hooked up the aux in yet with a jack but have seen the "how too" so this will be a piece of cake.

On the recording GX1 will the CD audio out from the CD-ROM hook to the regular CD audio in on the SB0090 and not conflict with using the CD-SP/DIF for the CT4830? Not for recording from CD but I want CD audio on this machine also.

That SB0220 does indeed work with the KX driver. I dropped it into a P4 Celeron with KX 3539 running XP pro and it fired right up..... sounds great too. I knew that card worked but creative drivers wouldn't find it. Here, I almost cut it up for a bracket and some jacks figuring it was dead! LOL.

I let you know how it all works out.

Thanks

Doug W

Tyrsonwood,

You're welcome. Waiting for a post of one of your songs. We appear to be chickens here at the kx forum and few of us post songs. We are either an untalented, very modest, or totally insecure gaggle of musicos.

monsterboxx

well here goes nothing...I talked with the sound engineer of the band that I work with about the whole project. I was in a "different state of mind" at the time yet I remember quite vividly what he was talking about however my brain could not wrap around the idea. He said something about being able to interface the midi. he can get 4 more channels of sound. I know nothing about midi and really have no clue where to begin with such a task. I will take a look around elsewhere as I normally do, but I seem to get the best answers out of here. I am very curious as to how that works and if anyone has had some sort of experience using midi ports. I am however guessing that a converter may be needed to access the midi just like the I2S on the AUD_EXT...

Maddogg6

MIDI can be used to sync 2 DAW/sequencers on 2 different computers (with 2 seperate audio cards) together using MIDI Time Code (MTC) - at least Sonar supports this anyway - tho I never tried with kX MIDI ports. Thats the only thing I can think of.
MIDI timecode - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

A 'master' computer's Daw/sequencer sends MTC to a 'slave' computer with a DAW/Sequencer set to receive MTC. And because MIDI integration into a DAW sequencer - audio is also synchronized as well. Tho, not 'sample accurate' - theres is bound to be a little lag from the relatively slow nature of MIDI transmissions, I think it would work well enough.
The projects PPQN and tempos may need to match as well for it to work properly. Its been a while since I used MTC (back when it was Cakewalk)

A google book on Sonar

Well, it depends on the card - but yes, both the AD_EXT and AUD_EXT show midi connections - but my A2ZS has another for a second card slot panel (where a PCI card would go otherwise for instance) for a game port / midi breakout box. But...

You may not *just need* midi port connectors - My SBLive I had to purchase a Game Port adapter to access its midi ports via the Game port - it had additional electronics for the midi ports, for isolation and buffering. DIY projects exist for that (I googled MIDI game port DIY - and then linked from several listed at Harmony Cenral)
I think the pins on the AUD_EXT and AD_EXT headers will need similar electronics. Tho I am not positive. MIDI uses a 20ma current loop, so I would expect INMIDI+, INMIDI- pins but just a INMIDI pin is probably referenced to ground and is likely TTL instead.

Also, You can use *any* midi interface - MTC is completely independent of the audio device. You dont *have* to use the Live/Audigy midi port for MTC to work. As, MIDI is basically a serial port dedicated to keyboard / studio equipment communication/automation.

monsterboxx

Yes this helps. I have done some soldering and I have gotten the ports to work!

However I have run into a bit of a snag. In using the proFX:SRC along side the MX8 panel I am running into a bit ouf trouble with the control of the channels. I am able to pipe sound into every input however I am not getting the control of leveling every input. There are no faders that I can see channel for channel.

Example: if I hook up using ADC I am using ADC and I am going into MX8 This allows me control of theoretically 2 mono and 1 stereo am I missing something here. I have also been made aware of UDA. This apparently allows me to take advantage of the extra input to begin with. This gives me access to the 2nd AC97 on the board, however I am losing the good ol fashioned src ac97 linein through installing the newer updated PROFX. I am using 3539. and I am using ProFx308_38L. What I am looking for is if anyone ever uses the "mixy 8x2" you would know what I am talking about as far as conrtol over every stereo input on a mono level. mix that in with the power of being able to use the linein and aux for this purpose and having the output to record as many discrete channels I can create in a mutichannel soundrecording app.

And by the way I am having fun learning about all of this. Just a few years ago I wrote these cards off due to the th creative drivers being a huge pain in the neck. I had decent onboard sound and I put them away in a drawer and here I am putting them into a machine that will hopefully tie into my other passion, music so thanks for all the support and ideas!