Kx drivers WON'T install in 98SE.

klerg

I deleted C:\windows and re-installed win98se, installed DirectX 8.1, and went ahead to setup the Kx drivers version 3534f. Right of the bat Kx kept displaying errors. The first i recall was after it detected my Sb Live! value as a CT4832. After i told it to setup KX 10k1, it immediately stated" error installing device driver. Kx will try to reinstall the driver later." Next, when it setups the Game port, it asks for vjoyd.vxd, i insert the win98 CD since the file is not on my HD yet. But, again, it prompts with the exact same message as above.

Upon reboot, it asks for swmidi.sys, i point it to C:\windows\system32\drivers, since i think its there. It seems to find that file fine. However, when it prompts for the next file, dmusic.sys, i direct it to C:\windows\system32\drivers, but it does NOT find it there. Where else could it be? I try C:\windows\system, C:\windows, C:\windows\system\directx, but NO luck for with any of these. So, I am forced to insert the win 98 cd so i can continue. Another error message suddenly appears ""Some of device names were dynamically changed. It is recommended that you reboot again for the changes to take effect kX Mixer may not function properly until next reboot"

Huh? What does this mean? I press Ok, but immediately another error message pops up: ""kX devices not found. Reinstall drivers. Kx Error: error initializing WinMM subsystem". Again, this message makes little sense to me. After i restart the thing, i get NO sound whatsoever. Yet, the Kx driver seems to be installed correctly. Device Manager says it is working properly. Kx appears in the system tray, but there is NO sound at all. Do i have to format my HD, now, or what? I removed the Kx drivers, and there is NO way it will install again.

My computer is an Intel 440BX mobo w/PIII-600, AMI BIOS, ACPI, and 256 MB SDRAM. if anyone needs more info i'll dig up for you.

Thanks.

Doug W

Don't worry about that, it is normal.

Did you have the Creative drivers installed before you reinstalled 98SE? If so, did you completely uninstall them before the 98SE reinstall?

Do you have Internet Explorer 5.5 or 6 installed?

So right at the moment, kX is not installed or it seems to be installed but you can't hear anything? Did you switch your speaker from the green to the black output?

klerg

No, i did not have them installed before i reinstalled 98SE. I uninstalled Live!Ware 3.0 from Add/Remove programs. Did i have to do something more? I did NOT install IE 5.5 or 6.0. I thought IE 5.0 or above was required. I'll install it right away.

Yes, i hear nothing. Strangely, when 98SE first loads i hear the default Microsoft Windows sound, but, afterward, when i go into "Sounds" in control panel i hear NONE of the sounds when i play them, including the Microsoft sound. The MIDI synth is totally mute, i even tried to load a soundfont, but it didn't help. How do i switch the speaker from green to black output? What does that do?

Russ

kX Swaps the Front and Rear by default. This means that if you have only a single pair of speakers connected to the Analog Front jack, you will not hear anything with the default setting. You should either move the speaker connection to the other jack, or disable the Toggle Swap Front and Rear option. Additionally, you should setup Surrounder such that it matches your speaker setup (and make sure Windows is set to 5.1).

Doug W

klerg
I think that you are correct that IE 5.0 is the minimum requirement. I just always update Win98SE to the latest which is 6.0.

It sounds to me like kX is working on your system now and if you follow Russ's advice you should start hearing something.

In addition make sure that "hardware acceleration" and "sample rate is set to full for recording and playback:

Start->Settings->Control Panel->multimedia icon->Audio Tab->Advanced Properties Button->Performance Tab

klerg

Well, i have 2.1 speakers w/subwoofer. I inserted them into the green output on the SB Live! Value. Is the green one the 'Analog Front jack?' I just inserted the speakers into the black output on the SB Live! Value, too, but it made NO difference. Is the black output the 'Rear' output? Should i try the other outputs (yellow, blue, and red are left i believe)? If the option to disable Toggle Swap Front and Rear option is in the Master tab, then i've already tried it, but it did NOTHING. I chose ALL the other options there, but it didn't help. I also tried selecting none of the speaker settings there, again it did zilch.

Oddly enough, I still hear the Microsoft Sound when Windows starts, it still sounds when the speakers are inserted into either the green or black outputs. It seems, to me, that once Kx mixer loads everything falls apart. I wasted more time by installing IE 6.0, and as i assumed, it did NOTHING.

BTW, do Kx drivers give the option for more than 64 voice polyphony? I know Live!Ware allows up to 1024 voices!

Russ

Yes, the Green jack is Analog Front, and the Black jack is Analog Rear.
If your speakers are connected to the green jack, then you would want to uncheck the 'Toggle Swap Front and Rear' option on the Main kxmixer page (basically nothing should be checked on the main mixer page).

Beyond that, make sure the Master Volume level. Wave Level, and Synth level (all on the main page) is not muted and at a reasonable level, as well as the volume for Analog Front (Ins and Outs page, should read 0 dB).

klerg

I've tried just about everything mentioned so far...still NO luck. I'm getting frustrated here. There was nothing in the "ins and outs" page showing decibels. So, i couldn't find a 0 db option for Analog Front. I even connected my speakers to every single jack (yellow, blue, red, green, and black) on the Live! value. The only explanation is the Winmm subsystem error. What does that mean, anyway?

Russ

The slider for analog front may have used a percentage scale instead of a dB scale in 3534f (I do not remember), in which case, just make sure it is at 100%.

Regarding the error, are you still getting the error, or was it only right after the installation?

I think I would probably just reinstall at this point.

Use Driver Cleaner Pro to remove any traces of kX and Creative driver.
Reboot in Safe Mode, and check for (and remove any) phantom devices (i.e. Sound Card listed multiple times) in Device Manager.
Boot back into normal Windows.
Install kX package, but do not install the drivers.
Install the drivers from Device Manager (point it to the kX install directory when it asks what driver to use, etc).

klerg

Hallelujah!! I finally got it to work! I'll outline what i did to document it for me and anyone else having trouble installing these drivers on 98SE.

*1. DISABLE ACPI IN THE BIOS. Obviously, this did the trick. I had the manual for my AMI BIOS, and it explained what to do there. I recommend everyone to do the same.

2. Format HD: NO worries, here, as i have complete backups of about everything i need.(At first, though, i formatted, installed windows, but when i setup Kx, it did NOT work at all! Apparently, this was because i didn't remove ACPI from the BIOS in the first place.) Make sure you disable ACPI in the bios BEFORE you setup WIndows.

3. Install DirectX 8.1

4. Install IE 6.0 (optional)

5. Install Kx drivers MANUALLY via Device Manager.( I couldn't stand all those errors from the setup program any longer...) There are different ways to manually load the driver, here is what i did: Control Panel--> System --> Other Devices--> PCI Multimedia Audio Device--> Reinstall Driver. From there, I told it to install right from kx.inf, and it reported ZERO errors.

6. Run Kxmixer.exe: In utter shock, i received the "dynamically changed" and the "Winmm subsystem" error again...However, after a restart, there were NO errors whatsoever. Upon restart, you should hear the startup windows chime (or whatever you have). To my dismay, i could still NOT hear anything. This is due to kxmixer allocating incompatible settings.

7. Uncheck the 'Toggle Swap Front and Rear' option: This is found on the "Master" page of kx mixer. TADA! Suddenly, all is well.

Unfortunately, while i hear sound (GREATLY improved, btw!) The MIDI synth (also enormously better) has trouble maintaining volume below 100, That is, whenever i set the volume to 100 in a midi sequence it resets back to 100 whenever i pause, rewind, or fast forward. Is this bug fixed in the newer versions? Also, i am curious to know what is the max. MIDI voice polyphony that Kx provides? Is there an option to choose the amount?

How does ACPI affect Kx drivers anyway? Oh well, Advanced Power Management (APM) is just as good. If i decide to install WinXP, would i still have to keep ACPI disabled? I think im gonna use either XPlite or nLite to setup XP. I know this 'guide' isn't perfect, but it SHOULD setup Kx swimmingly on 98SE.

Thanks a lot to all who helped me!

Russ

Ouch, thats a lot of work, but at least you are back to a nice clean PC state.

I did not think about ACPI, as I did not realize that Win98SE supported it, After a quick search, I have read that Win98SE does not handle ACPI very well, so that could definatley be a problem. ACPI (among other things) enables devices to share IRQ's (IRQ steering), and that by itself can be problematic, because some devices do not like to share. Even in XP, it is often recommended to disable ACPI for better audio performance (although I (and other people) have not needed to).

As for the MIDI behavoir, it is more likely that the player/sequencer that you are using is setting the Synth volume in the Windows mixer to match its settings (instead of the other way around). I have seen this happen with a few programs (not just midi related). Look for some sort of master volume control in your sequencer and try to adjust it there (i.e. Master volume as opposed to track volume, etc). As for the polyphony stuff, I am not sure, but someone else should be able to tell you.

klerg

Yeah, it sure was a pain in the backside, but i did learn a LOT, that in itself is always worth the effort! Very interesting what you state about ACPI. As for the MIDI volume, i'm not too concerned about it any more, as the Master volume is all i really need since my headphones have a separate volune control (not too mention my speaker do, too!). However, now that i've begun tinkering with kx, i've noticed crackling, clicking when playing both audio and especially MIDI. This only occurs when a passage is loud (i.e. clicks/cracks happen regardless of the volume level) Obviously, though, the crackling is more apparent when the volume is higher. For example, if a MIDI file is playing with velocities of 127, there are clicks/cracks no matter what the actual volume is set to.

Russ

I am not sure about the clicks/crackling you are hearing, but you might want to try turning off the reverb and chorus in kX to be sure that is not the noise source. Beyond that, maybe someone else has has experienced such problems (particulairly with 3534f, as I am using 3538j) can help.

Russ

BTW: You might want to try changing some of the Driver compatibilty options (under kX settings) and see if that helps. Check out the following thread for some info on some of those settings:
driver options

One of them mentions a problem with clicks, so maybe it will help (although I am not sure what options were in 3534f as opposed to other kX versions).

klerg

Thanks for links. Now, I am wondering what is max. soundfont i can load? It seems each 1 meg soundfont i load takes up 1%. 4gmgsmt.sf2 is 4 megs, and takes up 4%, 8mbgmgsfx.sf2 is 8 megs, so is uses 8%. Does this mean i can only load a 100 meg soundfont? Does v3537 allow you to load, at least, half your system memory (i have 256, so that made 128 available for soundfonts w/AudioHQ.)?

Russ

I do not know a lot about it, but I think you are right, in that you can use half of the available memory.

klerg

Well, i thought i'd upgrade to the latest version (3537), and after some hiccups, Windows telling me some error about NTKERN.VXD MMDEVLDR.VXD not loading...luckily, i was able to search on these forums and find a solution. Anyways, when i record audio (e.g. from a game) for some reason, it sounds scratchy, hissy, and downright noisy. What's going on here? Why does this happen? Also, on a smaller note, Vienna 2.3 refuses to play looped and un-looped samples stating "Not enough synthesizer voices for playback."

klerg

Hello...anybody? Why is it that when i record it sounds so bad as i play it back?

Russ

What are you using for recording? (i.e. ASIO or MME)
If MME, what format are you recording in?
What DSP config are you using for recording?

Check your recording levels, and make sure that any sources that you do not want recorded (AC97, etc) are muted.

Doug W

Don't know...Are you using the default DSP setup?

If you listen to an MP3 or some other music format downloaded from the Internet or even playback from a music CD...how does it sound?

klerg

It sounds CLEAN when playing an audio CD

Don't know, how can i tell? I haven't changed anything, its probably whatever the default settings is.

Again, i dunno, how can i figure this out?

Ditto.

Russ

What software are you using to do the recording? Most recording software allows you to set the recording format (i.e. 44100 kHz 16 Bit PCM (CD quality)). Low quality formats, low quality codecs, using too low of a bitrate (i.e. MP3), compression (i.e. MP3), can result in lower quality recording. (If using ASIO (I doubt you are using ASIO if you do not know), then using too low of a latency setting, can add artifacts/noise to the recording).

Check the Recording page of kxmixer.
Only the Master Recording Level, and the recording source that you are trying to record should be enabled. All other sliders on that page should be muted. For the type of recording you are are doing (recording games, etc), then it would be the Master Recording Level (set to 100%), and the Wave Recording Level slider (all other slider should be muted (read inf). For recording the kX Synths, then it would be the Master Recording Level, and the Synth Recording Level, etc.

Read some of the tutorials/guides on setting up and using kX.

klerg

MS Sound recorder. It ONLY allows you set the format AFTER you save the recording, which is not useful right now, since the mock-up tells me it gonna be low-quality.

That's EXACTLY what i've done. I've muted everything, but Master & Wave Recording levels on the Recording page, i've even muted most of the AC97 levels, but there is STILL unwanted noise and hiss.

Which guides, in particular, do you recommend?

Russ

I am pretty sure if you do the convert now thing before recording, it will change the format to use for recording (I think it defaults to something like PCM 22.050 kHz, 8 Bit mono, so you most likely would want to change it.

Do you still have Creative WaveStudio installed?
If not, you might want to reinstall that application from the CD (it works fine with kX), as it allows you to set the default recording format, and is more useful than Sound Recorder.

As for guides, I would start with the kX Help, and the info in the following thread:
A newbie guide on kX's (DSP) concept or "How to setup your DSP".