HawgsHead

OmegaRED · Oct 14, 2007, 07:30 PM

I have a beef with your sig!

Quote:

Rig specs to the left in the boxes....X-Box 360 w/Hitachi 42" HDTV....If Darwins theory of evolution is true then why are monkeys still monkeys?It takes much more faith to believe in Darwin's theory over the Genesis account of creation.

I'm certainly not an expert in Evolution or scripture but I know enough about both to see how ridiculous a statement that is.

Forth result on a google search turned this up.

Quote:

If humans evolved from monkeys, why do monkeys still exist?

I won't go on to ridicule this question although, in my humble opinion, it either shows a lack of understanding of the whole idea of evolution, or is being asked by someone looking to disprove evolution. And anyway, you can find the answer in a search engine so I shouldn't be answering it at all!

There are two ways of answering this question.

1. Shrug it off by stating Evolution is still a 'work-in-progress' and we don't really know (that answered that one!) or
2. To talk a little about evolution and try to answer by clearing up some common misconceptions.

I think the real question here is 'If something evolves, does the original which it evolves from die out' The answer to this is no.
The main thing here is that evolution does not mean the original dies out. The original only dies out if the conditions change enough for it to be unable to survive. Accompanying questions could be 'why are there no Neanderthal men still in existence but there are monkeys?' No Neanderthal men are in existence because the more evolved less - Neanderthal's killed all the more Neanderthal, less evolved's - hence their livable conditions expired. The rate of evolution dependant on conditions is also important to think about. Evolution is dependent on time as well. Vegetarian Monkeys and Apes didn't need to kill each other or anything else so they stayed placid and un evolved. The specific type of ape we evolved from was carnivorous and needed to evolve quickly to eat and keep up with the rest of its carnivorous friends or enemies!

I guess someone asking this question may be questioning evolution itself. Look around you. Evolution certainly exists - we see it everywhere. We know cells mutate and change - look at cancers. As animals, plants and us humans are all made of cells, we are all capable of mutating and changing our forms from one generation to the next. Over time, conditions and through necessity, our actions and our bodies will evolve to match the world around us. Note for example the increase in incidence's of short sightedness. This is a genetic defect and will gradually, from generation to generation become the predominant factor. As a result of corrective vision instruments, shortsighted people will not die out and will continue reproducing. Until we can alter the gene, more and more people will be born shortsighted.

I have drifted slightly from the question, so I'll summarise. Monkeys still exist because they had no enemies and no need to evolve, they therefore evolved slower than their apelike carnivorous counterparts - which no longer exist.
Another way to look at it is simply that humans followed a different evolutionary path from monkeys. We didn't evolve from monkeys - monkeys and humans evolved from the same ape like animal. We have since taken different paths, and both co-exist. There! 3 answers!!

Hopefully that's enough but I'm sure there's plenty of other sources which answer this question...not that any of it would convince you in the slightest.

Judas · Oct 15, 2007, 02:01 AM

Question is

Do you beleive in God (creationism?)
or
Do you beleive we evolved from Dirt? (evolutionism)

or

Do you theorise that ATM, there isn't any guaranteed.. 100% ... FOR SURE certain in either case and both are a work in progress

I'll stick to the Agnostic neutral side of this all... But i think it's pretty much the pot calling the kettle black when either sides starts throwing the monkey shit at each other..... Being absurdly stuborn to look at without some doubt or possibility is well.. stupid....

Zelig · Oct 15, 2007, 05:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Judas

Do you beleive we evolved from Dirt? (evolutionism)

No, the origin of life has nothing to do with the theory of evolution. The theory of evolution deals with how life evolves (aptly named, eh?), not with where it originated.

BlueMak · Oct 15, 2007, 06:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Judas

Question is

Do you beleive in God (creationism?)
or
Do you beleive we evolved from Dirt? (evolutionism)

Though Zelig is right, i want to say that if u were correct about this, you would be asking if a is different than a.

according to beliefs, god created humans from dirt.

then if u say it is not true, and if god created the cosmos and humans evolve from earth, wouldn't that make humans creation of god?

I don't believe in the big bang theory (belief more likely), or that god had anything to do with it.

********

Omega, I think u r a bit harsh against Hawgshead. I don't agree that humans evolved from "monkeys", but neither that god just made us appear out of nowhere. I can't prove it yet, but I doubt any of you two can prove your beliefs either.

OmegaRED · Oct 15, 2007, 08:20 AM

Quote:

I'll stick to the Agnostic neutral side of this all

The typical lazy agnostic approach

Quote:

Omega, I think u r a bit harsh against Hawgshead. I don't agree that humans evolved from "monkeys", but neither that god just made us appear out of nowhere. I can't prove it yet, but I doubt any of you two can prove your beliefs either.

There is loads of proof that Evolution is a fact while there is zero proof of any God creating us or anything else. I don't really have any firm beliefs but I make my decisions based on facts not fuzzy feelings or being too afraid to offend someone else's beliefs.

BlueMak · Oct 15, 2007, 08:28 AM

I didn't say that evolution is not real. I said evolution of humans from "monkeys".

OmegaRED · Oct 15, 2007, 08:45 AM

Since neither of us believes we evolved from "monkeys" I guess that makes us in agreement.

I didn't make this thread to start another evolution vs creationism thread and I'm not trying to be harsh with HawgsHead, just his sig. He's clearly the "go to" guy for Jesus stuff on DH and that's fine with me. Just don't misrepresent scientific theory to prop up your own beliefs k? If my sig had inaccurate scripture you can bet he'd let me know about it.

Judas · Oct 15, 2007, 01:40 PM

If god was so intelligent then..

wouldn't god use sciense?

I'm not argueing either side of the coin....

I do think thier is a considerable amount of wait for evolution...

But you had to admit that there was to be a point of orgin for everything..... and while the term "dirt" was pretty simplistic.. i should have stated "star dust" or perhaps something completely different... which i won't argue one way or another.

But i already pointed out something quite obvious.... In either case where both sides will argue against it.... it's really funny when they are stating the same thing.. but wording it differently enough that they can continue argueing....

Being agnostic is lazy? (i swear that was sarcasm.... but i'm yet again on the fense about it being either way)

OmegaRED · Oct 15, 2007, 02:00 PM

Quote:

Being agnostic is lazy? (i swear that was sarcasm.... but i'm yet again on the fense about it being either way)

Agnostics are, like you said, fence sitters and sometimes are too lazy to make up their minds or sometimes feel their position is superior to theists and atheists because they aren't committed to any viewpoint.

I've been Agnostic for almost my whole life up until recently when I got sick of fence sitting. I accepted that one side had to be wrong and that I should stop granting both arguments equal plausibility.

BlueMak · Oct 15, 2007, 02:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OmegaRED

Agnostics are, like you said, fence sitters and sometimes are too lazy to make up their minds or sometimes feel their position is superior to theists and atheists because they aren't committed to any viewpoint.

I've been Agnostic for almost my whole life up until recently when I got sick of fence sitting. I accepted that one side had to be wrong and that I should stop granting both arguments equal plausibility.

Well...at least you are not bitter.

Judas · Oct 15, 2007, 02:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OmegaRED

Agnostics are, like you said, fence sitters and sometimes are too lazy to make up their minds or sometimes feel their position is superior to theists and atheists because they aren't committed to any viewpoint.

I've been Agnostic for almost my whole life up until recently when I got sick of fence sitting. I accepted that one side had to be wrong and that I should stop granting both arguments equal plausibility.

Remember, consider yourself agnostic..

frankly the thought of simply getting fed up and picking a side would seem MORE "lazy" considering that you gave up trying to determine which side is wrong.... frankly the defeats the whoe point of being agnostic.

Agnostic doesn't nessarily mean you simply don't bother trying to "find the truth"

course it depends on how you determine yourself as agnostic..... i have no doubt there are lazy ass agnostic people nothing even haveing a passing thought run through thier head... and even ignore both sides of the discussion....

I prefer to seek the truth in my spare time... course knowing that i'll likely never find a end, but i can find more tangable proof one way or another... No different then having a weight scale.... little bit more here... little bit over there.....

still think it's funny that you figure being agnostic is being lazy....

OmegaRED · Oct 15, 2007, 05:39 PM

Judas, it's not like I woke up one day and thought "Damn, being Agnostic sucks! I wanna make friends with some Christians or those Godless goths who hang out in the cafeteria."

It's not just me that thinks Agnostics are lazy in matters of faith. Just google it and you'll find plenty of pages about the topic. This doesn't mean you specifically have lazy beliefs but in general that's the case.

I get the feeling Hawg doesn't know this thread exists

Judas · Oct 15, 2007, 05:53 PM

the issue is that there is to much generalization..

Me being agnostic doesn't compare to another person being agnostic... we could quite easily have a completely different set of standard and morals altogether.... them being a lazy bastard and me being a seeker or whatever ... someone is likely to consider me lazy perhaps...

I guess if you think about it.. yes i'm lazy with faith because i simply don't have faith.... so while someone would consider it lazy.. how can you be lazy at something you have zero of?