NEW:'Analog' Synth (DSP-instrument)

bennetng · May 30, 2005, 01:56 PM

This thing is too good

I am going to sequence some old FM arcade game music with this

Lex Nahumury · May 30, 2005, 02:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kokoon

..anyway, i just think it would be nice to have a poly synth too..

Yes, me too. Hmm,..the 106 could serve nicely as a 'bleuprint' for this.
There are going to be limitations though since, as you probably know, the emu10kx is not really suitable for (bandlimited) waveform generation.
Also, it is going to be a 'biggy' because of the polyphony, but that's justified.

/LeMury

Lex Nahumury · May 30, 2005, 03:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TravelRec.

.. My suggestions were only things I would find useful.

Yes of course. Nothing wrong with expressing ones wishes.
I modelled this synth to have those functions and sounds which I personaly need
and like the most as a keyboard player fitting my own musical style.
For example; Glide and Legato Keymode are essential to me but are hardly used
in most 'Computer Style Music'.

IMO, writing stuff to please others is a bad motivator unless it's ones job of course.
So, if the synth prooves usefull to others, that's a bonus.

That doesn't mean I'm blind and deaf to the needs of others.
If user requests are realizable and don't conflict with my initial goal,
I usualy try to grant them.

/LeMury

kokoon · May 30, 2005, 06:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LeMury

Yes, me too. Hmm,..the 106 could serve nicely as a 'bleuprint' for this.
There are going to be limitations though since, as you probably know, the emu10kx is not really suitable for (bandlimited) waveform generation.
Also, it is going to be a 'biggy' because of the polyphony, but that's justified.

/LeMury

ofcourse it would be a biggy. although it would be nice if it could be fit into a sb!Live.

cause that's all i've got

well i have 3 so i could easily dedicate one for a synth.

Lex Nahumury · May 30, 2005, 09:33 PM

I think it will fit into one 10k1, but there won't be that much 'room' left for other plugs.
We'll see.

/LeMury

BiCho · May 30, 2005, 09:42 PM

you could work on a synth with an effect section, multi-ouptut and polyhony which fits exactly the DSP of a 10k1 chip. easier and nicer for the user

Lex Nahumury · May 31, 2005, 01:54 AM

@TravelRec;
Just a tip I forgot to mention and one you probably already know/use;
As an alternative to MTC->Filter you can send rithmic midi control patterns to the synth's filter cutoff.
The filter is fully de-clicked (smoothed) and reacts very fast to midi CC11 expression.
Ease of generating the patterns depends on sequencers midi capabilities.
You can construct every lfo waveform that way, and everything works tempo locked of course.

/LeMury

kokoon · May 31, 2005, 02:47 AM

yeah the filter is really nicely interpolated.

though i'm thinking maybe its set a bit too high in the freq spectrum? or maybe i'm used to logarithmic sliders for filters?

Warpy · May 31, 2005, 03:26 AM

So which one do I download Download 3538, or the other one? I have onboard 5.1 with my mobo. Abit Av8.

**dj_stick** · May 31, 2005, 03:36 AM

you can't use kX

TravelRec. · May 31, 2005, 09:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LeMury

@TravelRec;
Just a tip I forgot to mention and one you probably already know/use;
As an alternative to MTC->Filter you can send rithmic midi control patterns to the synth's filter cutoff.
The filter is fully de-clicked (smoothed) and reacts very fast to midi CC11 expression.
Ease of generating the patterns depends on sequencers midi capabilities.
You can construct every lfo waveform that way, and everything works tempo locked of course.

/LeMury

Yes, yes - the filter is very fine (it really hangs right on my knob controller

) and your tip is good. The disadvantage of creating and using patterns is, that you have to set the messages manually or you have to convert notes you´ve played before into controller messages - no problem so far, but more time expensive. I think, time will tell. The thing, that´s more interesting, is to have fully control over the other faders, even if they click - just for quicker setup of values - without the mouse

. You know, it´s hard to jump from the MIDI keys and the controller bay to the computer screen and set the values while playing... I have to grow myself a third arm or something like that

.

Lex Nahumury · May 31, 2005, 12:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kokoon

yeah the filter is really nicely interpolated.

though i'm thinking maybe its set a bit too high in the freq spectrum? or maybe i'm used to logarithmic sliders for filters?

Well, it *is* logarithmic (exponential actualy) the way it should be for freq. sliders.
The expo curve however is a tad to steep, which can be altered, but that would take extra microcode so I decided not to.

/LeMury

Lex Nahumury · May 31, 2005, 12:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TravelRec.

Yes, yes - the filter is very fine (it really hangs right on my knob controller

) and your tip is good. The disadvantage of creating and using patterns is, that you have to set the messages manually or you have to convert notes you´ve played before into controller messages - no problem so far, but more time expensive. I think, time will tell. The thing, that´s more interesting, is to have fully control over the other faders, even if they click - just for quicker setup of values - without the mouse

. You know, it´s hard to jump from the MIDI keys and the controller bay to the computer screen and set the values while playing... I have to grow myself a third arm or something like that

.

Ah, yes I see.
I was under the impression you hardly didn't use a keyboard for live midi input.
A lot of computer style musicians or non-keyboard players use step-sequencers,
loops and such.

As for the automation;
Yes, setting up all sliders through Midi also has the advantage that one can store 'Presets'
within a sequencer project itself.

/LeMury

kokoon · May 31, 2005, 03:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LeMury

Well, it *is* logarithmic (exponential actualy) the way it should be for freq. sliders.
The expo curve however is a tad to steep, which can be altered, but that would take extra microcode so I decided not to.

FYI:
Since the filter is also under direct VCF_ADSR control we can not move such calculations to C++
like we do in a 'normal plugin' if we want a click-free, real time, responsive DSP-Instrument.
Doing al this in microcode (which is quite limited in size and power) is one of the biggest challenges in making such DSP-Instruments.

/LeMury

hmm how far is it from the "standard freq sliders" curve? i for one find this very important for the feel of the synth cause the cutoff control is the one i use the most. if it feels "wrong" or clumsy it can ruin the general synth impression.

just out of curiosity - what function exactly is it there? is it maybe the same function as semitone->frequency for pitch synthesis? (freq * 2 = 1 octave up)

maybe you could implement a perfect curve in C++ just for the global cutoff freq slider but keep the VCF envelope as it is now. as far as i can notice the VCF envelope just adds to the global cutoff level. maybe i'm wrong and just talking nonsense

anyhow - my point is that a nice curved cutoff control is a very important factor when deciding whether you like a certain synth or not.

Lex Nahumury · May 31, 2005, 04:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kokoon

.. my point is that a nice curved cutoff control is a very important factor when deciding whether you like a certain synth or not.

Yep, I agree but I'm satisfied with the way it is (for now).

/LeMury

kokoon · May 31, 2005, 04:43 PM

and thats what counts. cheers again for sharing the synth with us.

Lex Nahumury · Jun 2, 2005, 01:22 PM

@TravelRec: Added MIDI Automation.

OBSOLETE!
See first post

/LeMury

TravelRec. · Jun 3, 2005, 03:01 AM

WHOW! Thank you very much, I will test it soon and then reply here

Have made a new testsound: www.electricstart.de/sound/asynth2.mp3

3 instances of ASynth 1.1b and a chorus and a delay, all sound completely out of the DSP!

pwdm · Jun 4, 2005, 05:36 AM

Thanks for a great synth.

This really does sound fantasticic. And with the midicc,s I can fully control this from my seq.

Think its time I got another SB for my other machine.

Cheers and keep up the good work

Lex Nahumury · Jun 4, 2005, 12:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TravelRec.

Have made a new testsound: www.electricstart.de/sound/asynth2.mp3

3 instances of ASynth 1.1b and a chorus and a delay, all sound completely out of the DSP!

Whow,.. that sounds great TravelRec!
Nice synced delay on the bass line. Very tastefull use of the chorus and delay overall.
Love that bass sound. Nice patch programming.

I must say this is the biggest satisfaction I can get;... people actualy using the synth to create music!!

May I put a link to your tune in the firts post?

/LeMury

TravelRec. · Jun 5, 2005, 03:14 AM

Yup, why not, I made it to show *some* of the possibilities of your plug - even more can be done

. Not testet all the features yet... BTW - there´s a small bug with the glide fader. If I control it via MIDI and the knob is on the left, the glide slider beconmes a zero value and the glide fx is on full, with glide value 1 (manual set) the glide is on minimum again.

Greetings!

Lex Nahumury · Jun 5, 2005, 03:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TravelRec.

Yup, why not, I made it to show *some* of the possibilities of your plug - even more can be done

.... BTW - there´s a small bug with the glide fader.

- Man you are creative with that stuff!
Let me know when you've made other cool tunes, sounds etc. that you wish to share here. I'm pretty sure it's usefull to potential new users to actualy hear what can be achieved.

- I'll fix that 'Glide automation' bug. Thx for reporting this.

/LeMury

Lex Nahumury · Jun 5, 2005, 04:19 AM

'Glide automation' bug fixed;
http://members.home.nl/nahutec/kxSynth/asynth.zip
(same link as previous)

/LeMury

TravelRec. · Jun 6, 2005, 08:23 AM

Oh, thank you! I have done some more testing with all the controllers (slightly too much for 16 knobs

/ had to setup 2 controller-sets to get them all

). So far - so good, no clicks while controlling. But another small bug. The VCA attack has an own behaviour: if sustain and release is short, then the attack can be very hard. If sustain and/or release is above 50% then the attack becomes smoother and longer, this is a bit disturbing. But the sound is already cool. New tracks or demos will come, if I have some time to play around

. One question: is it possible to get newer ASynth-versions compiled for 3537? Since my main music partition is on it, I have often to switch around for a) playing some tracks and b) mixing them together. Unfortunately I´m UFX - dependent, so I can´t update next time.

Thank you for your time!
TravelRec.

Lex Nahumury · Jun 6, 2005, 02:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TravelRec.

VCA:... if sustain and release is short, then the attack can be very hard. If sustain and/or release is above 50% then the attack becomes smoother and longer, this is a bit disturbing.

What do you mean? Does this happen with/since automation only?
I justed checked the sliders, but vca attack_rate is independant from decay_rate, sustain_level, release_rate.

Quote:

One question: is it possible to get newer ASynth-versions compiled for 3537? Since my main music partition is on it, I have often to switch around for a) playing some tracks and b) mixing them together. Unfortunately I´m UFX - dependent, so I can´t update next time.

Sure, but LOL,..why didn't you say so before?
So far only Kokoon consistantly askes for it.

I'm really curious how many musicians are actualy sticking to 3537 because of UFX.
If the majority does, I might just as well write for 3537 only (untill Max updates ufx).

/LeMury

TravelRec. · Jun 7, 2005, 11:27 AM

HeHe

, thank you! Just for testing the 3538 partition is fine, but for recording not. Since I record your synth, 3537 version would be better

!

As for the VCA, I try to reproduce the bug (if any), then I record something and then I post it, until I do this, leave everything like it is, only just a 3537 ver. for download ?????????????.................