synthesizer kx modular system 1

stylus02 · May 23, 2008, 09:39 AM

i did facelift an added copyright info. yes it was recompiled. mm.. you get the project files.. mom

http://freenet-homepage.de/stylish-s...20_1.0_vc6.zip

i installed the 3541 sdk only. then i took the demo workspace and deleted
demo.cpp, demo.h, simple.h and puted in kxm120.cp, kxm120.h, simple.cpp (kxm120).
maybe this don't work. i have no chance to test it.

Russ · May 23, 2008, 09:57 AM

Hehe, its your plugin, you do not need to give me the project files when you make changes, etc. For that matter, you do not need to add my name to it, etc, just a thanks for the help is fine

Just remember that when compiling for 3539 or later, to set the active config to the Release build. (in VC6, Build -> Active Configuration -> Win32 Release)

Quote:

Originally Posted by stylus02

i installed the 3541 sdk only. then i took the demo workspace and deleted
demo.cpp, demo.h, simple.h and puted in kxm120.cp, kxm120.h, simple.cpp (kxm120).
maybe this don't work. i have no chance to test it.

You can just use the workspace from the project files I sent you, as they were from 3541 anyway. There is no need to use anything from the demo plugin folder with that workspace.

i.e.
Make new folder in the SDK 3541 folder.
Add my project files.
Replace kxm120.h, kxm120.cpp, and da_kxm120.cpp with your updated versions.
Open the workspace.
Set the Active config to Win32 Release.
Build the plugin (resulting .kxl will be in the Release folder).

stylus02 · May 23, 2008, 10:22 AM

can you compile it for 3541 and send me? so can i can make a link on it.
the 3541 is compatible to 3540, 3539? (seen on your website) > this could be the best solution right now.
the configuration setting in vc6 and all this crazy stuff i'll test later.
the copyrights are correct for the moment. the important things were added by you.

Russ · May 23, 2008, 10:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stylus02

can you compile it for 3541 and send me? so can i can make a link on it.
the 3541 is compatible to 3540, 3539? (seen on your website) > this could be the best solution right now.
the configuration setting in vc6 and all this crazy stuff i'll test later.
the copyrights are correct for the moment. the important things were added by you.

OK. Send me a PM with your email address, so I can just email it to you, rather than having to upload it to my web site, etc (if that is OK with you).

And yes, I think that it should be compatible with 3540/3539 (since 3539 plugins are compatible with 3540/3541).

stylus02 · May 23, 2008, 10:53 AM

files updated. i really hope it's done.

Russ · May 28, 2008, 11:53 AM

Here is something I have been playing around with, using kxm for the synth sounds:
Temp link: kX Stuff 2

stylus02 · May 28, 2008, 06:43 PM

mm.. very nice sequence. are all the sounds generated with the modular?

Russ · May 28, 2008, 08:40 PM

Thanks,
The guitar and drums are not from kxm, but the rest is.

stylus02 · May 29, 2008, 05:50 AM

added to the examples list. do i hear the microwah-wah too?

Russ · May 29, 2008, 10:04 AM

No microwah, what you hear is probably the envelope of the kxm510 modulated by the kxm700.

stylus02 · May 29, 2008, 10:38 AM

yes that's funny, because the same algoritms.

JGSF · Jun 13, 2008, 02:29 PM

This is great stuff!

Thanks.

Just one suggestion:

How about giving the modules a more familiar name, ie: 100 - 3octv. MidiKeyb? I think it would be more intuitive when choosing them from the menu.

stylus02 · Jun 14, 2008, 09:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Johnny1982

This is great stuff!

Thanks.

Just one suggestion:

How about giving the modules a more familiar name, ie: 100 - 3octv. MidiKeyb? I think it would be more intuitive when choosing them from the menu.

well, i took the designation because it was short and clearly in the dsp window. remember, the moog- modules also had these short designations.

you can simply rename modules by rightclicking on it and choose "rename".

stylus

JGSF · Jun 14, 2008, 11:42 AM

Yes, you're right, we can always rename them in the dsp.

I didn't know the moog modules used the same naming approach though.

Max M. · Jun 4, 2009, 12:25 PM

btw., i'm finishing a modified (for "semi-logarithmic" attack) and optimized version of the "adsr" - may i name it "kxm403"?

Max M. · Jun 5, 2009, 04:16 AM

Never mind. Here we are then

This is an ADSR envelope generator compatible with "kx modular system": kxm403.da
It has a "semi-logarithmic" attack (more specifically "inverse-square" one, as in '2*x-x^2') and exponential decay/release curves (as i recently mentioned here) - like this.

A non-optimized (e.g. more readable) code for a sort-of-reference is also available (kxm403.readable.da)

stylus02 · Jun 5, 2009, 09:22 AM

11 registers- that's great. you use a parabola form for smooth curves. one must have ideas. i found out in some tests that the logaritmic interpolation was better on higher exponents, but i got no usable slope times. i think we now we have the best solution in a dane source.

kxm403 sounds good

feel free by naming it so long a number is not in use.
(there are enough numbers in a category kxm4xx - envelopes)

stylus

Max M. · Jun 5, 2009, 09:34 AM

Quote:

i see you use logaritmic function with maximum exponent "1f" for smooth curves.

not exactly.

i use log instruction only to convert the fader control value to filter (see below) coefficients. The exponential curve is a result of applying an integration filter (basically it's the same thing as the "one interp LPF") - there're no exp/log instructions in curve generators themselves.

stylus02 · Jun 5, 2009, 09:53 AM

"i see you use logaritmic function with maximum exponent "1f" for smooth curves." - that was my confusion.
i should read better before i answer

stylus

Lex Nahumury · Jun 13, 2009, 03:08 PM

Stylus,

I haven't been able to test your modulair synth earlier hence this late reaction.

Your Allias-free oscilator module kxm210 produces incorrect pitch intervals.
It's most notable in the upper octaves but it happens in the lower octaves as well.
Basicly it produces out of tune pitches due to the algorithme you used.
The 'limit' approach in the saw generation introduces errors in pitch.
The alternative MACW wraparound approach has good pitch but unfortunatly produces
the well known AA effects.
I hope you'll be able to fix this since this is a 'biggy' (well, at least to me it is).

Also, you may put some 'parameter smoothers' on the RealTime controls like Fcutt etc. to
get rid of those annoying zipper noises when you move a slider.
A simple 'interp lowpass' on crucial parameters will do the trick.

The keyboard module kxm120 may work OK for sequencer playback,
but for Realtime keyboard playing it's unusable.
The Note schedulair scheme is too simple.

ADSR response doesn't feel/sound 'natural'. The ADSR code Max recently gave you will
probably work a lot better.

At last, I hope you master C/C++ soon and move all those parameter calculations out of
DSP microcode. That would save a huge amount of DSP resources and gives you better programming options.
Also ,that way you could Publish all those 20+ in one big swoop instead of letting user do 20+*2 mouseclicks to register all those plugs

Just some ideas. Keep up the good work!

Cheers,

/Lex.

stylus02 · Jun 14, 2009, 12:07 PM

hi lex, thanks for spending some time on testing the modular. your ideas cover the problems i see too.
- mainly the keyboard unit needs a sort- algoritm to play notes correctly after "note-off's" are recieved. i thought about an array which saves a number of
notes, sort and give back the highest note/last note is pressed.
- the oscillalator "less aliasing" effect was a fortuity after using test- command "limitn" as you have figured out. other test- commands (tstneg, skip..) generated the effect too. i had no really explanation on it. the detune is small, let's say it feels analog, historic.
- max's adsr is really great.
- parameter smoothing, register/unregister script - good ideas

what affects on vc++6: for me the "win32 debug build" with 3538 works. no idea why "win32 release build" won't work: dll's, vc++6 installation (not original cd)? for compiling the 3539 (and upper) someone off you kx- users could do this.

stylus

Lex Nahumury · Jun 14, 2009, 05:56 PM

Quote:

..mainly the keyboard unit needs a sort- algoritm to play notes correctly..

yes, simply maintain a note_on buffer and kick notes from it when you recieve the corresponding note_off.
If buffer not empty, play highest note in buffer etc. etc.
Well, easy to do in C/C++.

Quote:

the detune is small, let's say it feels analog, historic.

Sorry, I don't agree. Higher notes are severly out of tune!
Very unproffessional unless you have very low standards.
I'm pretty sure a Nordlead (or any free VST synth for that matter) does not suffer
from such bad design

Producing Aliasing free waveforms like saw, square etc in DSP is next to impossible in emu10kx.
Perhaps Max might have some tricks left, but in this case I doubt it.
(although you never know with Max. That is one "clever cat"

)

Anyway, the best I could come up with is using sinewaves to 'construct' the waveform.
The saw osc in ASynth has perfect pitch and is almost alias free.
Here's what I do;

sine_osc -> abs(sine) -> hp filter

Now you have alias free saw approximation.
Here's the microcode;

Code:

;---------------------------------------------------
; Bandlimited SAW generator - Lex Nahumury 2005
;---------------------------------------------------
static PORTA_T		; portamento time coef
static FCOEF		; (osc_freq/samplerate)
static HPCOEF=0.9	; hp filter coef (fixed empirical)
static hx		; hp filter mem
static osc		; osc phase
temp t, fy

	interp	fy, fy, PORTA_T, FCOEF 	; pitch change smoothing (portamento)
; Osc
	macw	osc, osc, fy, 1		; base saw
	tstneg	t, osc, osc, 0		; make tri
	interp	t, osc, t, 0		; make sinusoide
	tstneg  t, t, t, 0		; make abs(sinusoide)

; 1st order HP tracking filter
	macsn	t, t, hx, 1		; abs into hp
	macs	hx, hx, t, HPCOEF	; Bandlimited Saw is in t

; Note: Amplitude of generated saw is inverted proportional to freq.
; Use a 1/fcoef gain correction stage
;------------------------------------------------------

Something similair should work for square too but I havent figured out how
back then when I was making Asynth.
The portamento stage is of course not part of the osc but I left it in as a bonus.

Cheers.

PS: EDIT:
I just remembered, idealy the HP filter cuttoff should be tracking with the osc freq instead of a fixed cuttof. That way the saw amplitude remains constant.
Hmm,..I can't remember why I didn'd do that in my synth.

stylus02 · Jun 14, 2009, 08:32 PM

i never had running my oscillators with other synths, so the detune never was really noticed.

the saw oscillator i'll check as soon as i got time. i remember on doing a fourier sythesis saw oscillator with several sinoid oscillators. it took much registers and was unusable.
btw: using polyphonic soundfont oscillator with a midi true connection is another great possibility to feed the synth.

stylus

Lex Nahumury · Jun 15, 2009, 10:19 AM

Note: I edited my previous post.

stylus02 · Jul 7, 2009, 08:05 PM

2 new nice classic modules for the modular. kxm 530 is a 8 band fixed filter bank for tweaking synthesizer sound formants. use it with noise source for your surprise! (preferably pink noise) kxm 920 is a spring reverb with fixed attributes. i really like this odd sound.

http://freenet-homepage.de/stylish-stylus/kxm_530.da
http://freenet-homepage.de/stylish-stylus/kxm_920.da *

stylus

*had to update the springs model feedback (the other version was something like a 6 spring parallel reverb, not bad sounding, but far from original)

May 23, 2008, 09:39 AM	#31
stylus02 DriverHeaven Lover Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: germany, sb0090 Posts: 158 Rep Power: 0	i did facelift an added copyright info. yes it was recompiled. mm.. you get the project files.. mom http://freenet-homepage.de/stylish-s...20_1.0_vc6.zip i installed the 3541 sdk only. then i took the demo workspace and deleted demo.cpp, demo.h, simple.h and puted in kxm120.cp, kxm120.h, simple.cpp (kxm120). maybe this don't work. i have no chance to test it. __________________ http://freenet-homepage.de/stylish-s...xas/index.html Last edited by stylus02; May 23, 2008 at 09:54 AM.

May 23, 2008, 10:22 AM	#33
stylus02 DriverHeaven Lover Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: germany, sb0090 Posts: 158 Rep Power: 0	can you compile it for 3541 and send me? so can i can make a link on it. the 3541 is compatible to 3540, 3539? (seen on your website) > this could be the best solution right now. the configuration setting in vc6 and all this crazy stuff i'll test later. the copyrights are correct for the moment. the important things were added by you. __________________ http://freenet-homepage.de/stylish-s...xas/index.html

May 23, 2008, 10:53 AM	#35
stylus02 DriverHeaven Lover Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: germany, sb0090 Posts: 158 Rep Power: 0	files updated. i really hope it's done. __________________ http://freenet-homepage.de/stylish-s...xas/index.html

May 28, 2008, 06:43 PM	#37
stylus02 DriverHeaven Lover Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: germany, sb0090 Posts: 158 Rep Power: 0	mm.. very nice sequence. are all the sounds generated with the modular? __________________ http://freenet-homepage.de/stylish-s...xas/index.html

May 29, 2008, 05:50 AM	#39
stylus02 DriverHeaven Lover Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: germany, sb0090 Posts: 158 Rep Power: 0	added to the examples list. do i hear the microwah-wah too? __________________ http://freenet-homepage.de/stylish-s...xas/index.html

May 28, 2008, 11:53 AM	#36
Russ DriverHeaven Extreme Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 4,836 Rep Power: 41	Here is something I have been playing around with, using kxm for the synth sounds: Temp link: kX Stuff 2

May 28, 2008, 08:40 PM	#38
Russ DriverHeaven Extreme Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 4,836 Rep Power: 41	Thanks, The guitar and drums are not from kxm, but the rest is.

May 29, 2008, 10:04 AM	#40
Russ DriverHeaven Extreme Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 4,836 Rep Power: 41	No microwah, what you hear is probably the envelope of the kxm510 modulated by the kxm700.

May 29, 2008, 10:38 AM	#41
stylus02 DriverHeaven Lover Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: germany, sb0090 Posts: 158 Rep Power: 0	yes that's funny, because the same algoritms. __________________ http://freenet-homepage.de/stylish-s...xas/index.html

Jun 13, 2008, 02:29 PM	#42
JGSF DriverHeaven Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 450 Rep Power: 0	This is great stuff! Thanks. Just one suggestion: How about giving the modules a more familiar name, ie: 100 - 3octv. MidiKeyb? I think it would be more intuitive when choosing them from the menu.

Jun 14, 2008, 11:42 AM	#44
JGSF DriverHeaven Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 450 Rep Power: 0	Yes, you're right, we can always rename them in the dsp. I didn't know the moog modules used the same naming approach though.

Jun 4, 2009, 12:25 PM	#45
Max M. d/h member-shmember Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Evil Empire Posts: 2,412 Rep Power: 47	Îòâåò: synthesizer kx modular system 1 btw., i'm finishing a modified (for "semi-logarithmic" attack) and optimized version of the "adsr" - may i name it "kxm403"? __________________

Jun 5, 2009, 04:16 AM	#46
Max M. d/h member-shmember Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Evil Empire Posts: 2,412 Rep Power: 47	another ADSR module Never mind. Here we are then This is an ADSR envelope generator compatible with "kx modular system": kxm403.da It has a "semi-logarithmic" attack (more specifically "inverse-square" one, as in '2*x-x^2') and exponential decay/release curves (as i recently mentioned here) - like this. A non-optimized (e.g. more readable) code for a sort-of-reference is also available (kxm403.readable.da) __________________

Jun 5, 2009, 09:22 AM	#47
stylus02 DriverHeaven Lover Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: germany, sb0090 Posts: 158 Rep Power: 0	Re: synthesizer kx modular system 1 11 registers- that's great. you use a parabola form for smooth curves. one must have ideas. i found out in some tests that the logaritmic interpolation was better on higher exponents, but i got no usable slope times. i think we now we have the best solution in a dane source. kxm403 sounds good feel free by naming it so long a number is not in use. (there are enough numbers in a category kxm4xx - envelopes) stylus __________________ http://freenet-homepage.de/stylish-s...xas/index.html Last edited by stylus02; Jun 5, 2009 at 09:41 AM. Reason: first read than write..

Jun 5, 2009, 09:53 AM	#49
stylus02 DriverHeaven Lover Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: germany, sb0090 Posts: 158 Rep Power: 0	Re: synthesizer kx modular system 1 "i see you use logaritmic function with maximum exponent "1f" for smooth curves." - that was my confusion. i should read better before i answer stylus __________________ http://freenet-homepage.de/stylish-s...xas/index.html

Jun 13, 2009, 03:08 PM	#50
Lex Nahumury DH Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 1,883 Rep Power: 48	Re: synthesizer kx modular system 1 Stylus, I haven't been able to test your modulair synth earlier hence this late reaction. Your Allias-free oscilator module kxm210 produces incorrect pitch intervals. It's most notable in the upper octaves but it happens in the lower octaves as well. Basicly it produces out of tune pitches due to the algorithme you used. The 'limit' approach in the saw generation introduces errors in pitch. The alternative MACW wraparound approach has good pitch but unfortunatly produces the well known AA effects. I hope you'll be able to fix this since this is a 'biggy' (well, at least to me it is). Also, you may put some 'parameter smoothers' on the RealTime controls like Fcutt etc. to get rid of those annoying zipper noises when you move a slider. A simple 'interp lowpass' on crucial parameters will do the trick. The keyboard module kxm120 may work OK for sequencer playback, but for Realtime keyboard playing it's unusable. The Note schedulair scheme is too simple. ADSR response doesn't feel/sound 'natural'. The ADSR code Max recently gave you will probably work a lot better. At last, I hope you master C/C++ soon and move all those parameter calculations out of DSP microcode. That would save a huge amount of DSP resources and gives you better programming options. Also ,that way you could Publish all those 20+ in one big swoop instead of letting user do 20+*2 mouseclicks to register all those plugs Just some ideas. Keep up the good work! Cheers, /Lex.

Jun 14, 2009, 12:07 PM	#51
stylus02 DriverHeaven Lover Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: germany, sb0090 Posts: 158 Rep Power: 0	Re: synthesizer kx modular system 1 hi lex, thanks for spending some time on testing the modular. your ideas cover the problems i see too. - mainly the keyboard unit needs a sort- algoritm to play notes correctly after "note-off's" are recieved. i thought about an array which saves a number of notes, sort and give back the highest note/last note is pressed. - the oscillalator "less aliasing" effect was a fortuity after using test- command "limitn" as you have figured out. other test- commands (tstneg, skip..) generated the effect too. i had no really explanation on it. the detune is small, let's say it feels analog, historic. - max's adsr is really great. - parameter smoothing, register/unregister script - good ideas what affects on vc++6: for me the "win32 debug build" with 3538 works. no idea why "win32 release build" won't work: dll's, vc++6 installation (not original cd)? for compiling the 3539 (and upper) someone off you kx- users could do this. stylus __________________ http://freenet-homepage.de/stylish-s...xas/index.html Last edited by stylus02; Jun 14, 2009 at 12:27 PM. Reason: ...

Jun 14, 2009, 08:32 PM	#53
stylus02 DriverHeaven Lover Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: germany, sb0090 Posts: 158 Rep Power: 0	Re: synthesizer kx modular system 1 i never had running my oscillators with other synths, so the detune never was really noticed. the saw oscillator i'll check as soon as i got time. i remember on doing a fourier sythesis saw oscillator with several sinoid oscillators. it took much registers and was unusable. btw: using polyphonic soundfont oscillator with a midi true connection is another great possibility to feed the synth. stylus __________________ http://freenet-homepage.de/stylish-s...xas/index.html Last edited by stylus02; Jun 14, 2009 at 08:48 PM.

Jun 15, 2009, 10:19 AM	#54
Lex Nahumury DH Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 1,883 Rep Power: 48	Re: synthesizer kx modular system 1 Note: I edited my previous post.

Jul 7, 2009, 08:05 PM	#55
stylus02 DriverHeaven Lover Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: germany, sb0090 Posts: 158 Rep Power: 0	Re: synthesizer kx modular system 1 2 new nice classic modules for the modular. kxm 530 is a 8 band fixed filter bank for tweaking synthesizer sound formants. use it with noise source for your surprise! (preferably pink noise) kxm 920 is a spring reverb with fixed attributes. i really like this odd sound. http://freenet-homepage.de/stylish-stylus/kxm_530.da http://freenet-homepage.de/stylish-stylus/kxm_920.da * stylus had to update the springs model feedback (the other version was something like a 6 spring parallel reverb, not bad sounding, but far from original) __________________ http://freenet-homepage.de/stylish-s...xas/index.html Last edited by stylus02; Jul 8, 2009 at 06:23 AM.*

LinkBacks (?) LinkBack to this Thread: http://www.driverheaven.net/effects-dsp/153039-synthesizer-kx-modular-system-1-a.html
Posted By	For	Type	Date
YouTube - Jean Michel Jarre - Oxygene 4 (Reason KX Mix)	This thread	Refback	Sep 8, 2009 08:37 AM
Der	This thread	Refback	Aug 23, 2009 09:44 AM
Der	This thread	Refback	Aug 23, 2009 08:59 AM
synth modular \| VIRGILIO Ricerca \| Web	This thread	Refback	May 18, 2009 04:39 PM
YouTube - Jean Michel Jarre - Oxygene 4 (Reason KX Mix)	This thread	Refback	Apr 12, 2009 07:39 PM
YouTube - Jean Michel Jarre - Oxygene 4	This thread	Refback	Feb 14, 2009 04:55 PM
YouTube - Jean Michel Jarre - Oxygene 4	This thread	Refback	Jan 31, 2009 10:25 AM
YouTube - Jean Michel Jarre - Oxygene 4	This thread	Refback	Jan 25, 2009 03:20 AM
Blog von stylus - spin.de	This thread	Refback	Jan 9, 2009 09:05 AM