DSP Routing with ASIO - Guitar Rig & ACID

hambonehamula

I have been trying to get a 1.5 gig AMD machine with a Creative Live Drive II working as a basic recording studio for a friend who needs help. The kx project is really cool and is making it possible for a lot of musicians to be very creative. The tutorials are very good.

I just have one issue and before I spend many more hours, I thought I would ask for help. I have been able to route my signal through Guitar Rig and monitor both the dry and wet signal. I can record the dry signal using Acid (as my multi-track) and monitor both the ACID looped song and my guitar playing... Very cool. I can then add effects to the
tracks. Also I can play the guitar through Guitar Rig while at the same time listening to the track in the ACID. However, when I try to record the Guitar Rig effect while monitoring the song, I get a lot of funky errors related to conflicts and extreme latency.

This concept is easy to do with an EMU 0404 and their Patchmix DSP software. Can anyone clue me in to whether this is possible or can someone send me a .kx config of their working DSP? I just want to be able to record the guitar rig sound on a multi-track software.

Thanks!

Russ

I am not really familair with either program that you are using, but, I think what you want to do is use Guitar Rig's VST interface (as opposed to the stand alone version) inside of ACID, as both programs cannot use ASIO at the same time.

Also, it is not completely clear what your current setup is, can you elaborate on how both Guitar Rig and ACID are currently configured (what driver each is configured to use, etc)?

hambonehamula

my set up is a Sound Blaster Platinum with the Live Drive II. I plug a guitar into the front panel (Live Drive) and can use the kx ASIO to route signal through the stand alone Guitar Rig. I then open up ACID and have been trying to figure out if I can some how get that Guitar Rig sound signal recorded. This functionality works perfectly with an ASIO driven software and hardware (EMU 0404 and Patchmix DSP). So I figured that my problem is routing or something.

Russ

I do not know anything about the EMU card, nor it's ASIO driver, but you should be able to record the signal from Guitar Rig in ACID using MME, but then you lose the low latency benefits of using ASIO with Guitar Rig. It sounds to me, like you want to use Guitar Rig to apply effects to your guitar signal in real-time, and record that signal in real-time in ACID, in which case, you would need to do as I said above, and use Guitar Rig as a VST inside of ACID, and setup ACID to use ASIO for input. I am not sure of another way to do it, if you want to do both in real-time.

I cannot imagine it being that much different with the EMU driver, considering that the signal would have to enter the DSP, get routed to ASIO for recording in Guitar Rig, then get routed back into the DSP, so that it can then get routed into a seperate ASIO channel for recording in ACID, then get routed back into the DSP once again, to get sent to the speakers.

alienbee

see im in the same boat with this idea..guitar rig or amplitube 2..
I use ableton and exdrummer..but the latency with this soundblaster live gets some crackling when used at the minimum latency of about 8 when i use guitar rig or amplitube as a vst..its cleaner and I dont get that crackiling ..only when im inside of ableton trying to use it as a vst ..

so yea..stand alone acts and sounds better..

on the side note..the ony reason im trying to use amplitube or guitar rig is for the cabs/mic simulation. not for the sounds.
I already have a rig that i use to play live..
been trying to get that live cab sound without micing..going direct is a whole nother story.
I may have to by a motherload.

Maddogg6

What find best is to record the guitar input DRY - But use kX effects for monitor effects (or record them as well - like after compression/Gate - but depends..) - THEN add guitar rig (or what ever) as a track effect to that recorded track.

Realize - recording with VST effects the latency time doubles (ASIO into Guitar rig > ASIO into DAW for recording)

- while usually this 'works', I find the latency is too much for playing anything faster than sustaining chords - even on 'fast' PC's.

Even better is to use a hardware amp/cabinet simulator common in many guitar effects processors now - and use KX and/or VST effects on that.

But then again, my time with guitar rig has been limited (I dont own it) I use a hardware amp/cab emulator and DI (its as close to 0 latency as I can get).

Lex Nahumury

That is too weird maddog!
As long as you keep ASIO Latency setting below ~5msec 99% of all guitarist won't even
notice. (it's the same as standing a few meters from your speaker cab in real world)

I use kX + VST Guitar plugins + Cubase, ASIO latency set to ~2.6...4msec.
Recording/monitoring E-guitar through ASIO, everything in 'real time' on 1.5Ghz PC,
no problems at all.

I have done so with several (very skilled and 'fast' lead guitarist).
None of them ever complained about 'Lag', not even while wearing headphones.
(a condition were "speed through air delay" is taken out of the equation)

/Lex.

Maddogg6

Thats the difference.... unless I strip my OS - this isnt possible for me - who uses the PC for other things as well... Which I also imagine is more common than those with a dedicated DAW machine that makes such optimization more realistic. The OP's are sort of a testament to this as well.

With any effects and # of tracks - I get at best 8ms - but I have needed to adjusted up to 10ms - in either condition - it's un usable for me to record VST effects like guitar rig (not on my PC either)/ Amplitube in realtime.
Also - a skilled musician may have an easier time adjusting for the off timing.. ?? I know its very difficult for me - thus my disclaimer of:
Dont discount ones ability to compensate for delays they are accustomed to - I almost never use an amp - so maybe thats another thing too... but then - I do play others amps with out problems tho too.... I dunno...

I can only dream of 5ms, much less 2.6ms latency - but If Im gonna dream - that aint gonna be it (I dream of a PC for every situation - that collectively will COOL my ambient air temps. - in other words - even if I could get my hands on a dedicated DAW - the heat of Arizona summers makes using it not very pleasant - not to mention costly (AC bills $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$)

Lex Nahumury

I see.
Still, if the <5msec criteria is meet (which is achievable and pretty common these days),
'real time' guitar processing/recording/monitoring through PC sofware is as good (or bad) as any digital hardware guitar fx processor/preamp solution latency wise.
(harder to setup perhaps, but that's another story)

>>Dont discount ones ability to compensate for delays they are accustomed to..
Yes, but that doesn't really apply as long as one stays below 5msec.
I can A<->B between 2msec,5msec and near 0msec,
and I (and others) never had the feeling to compensate.
In other words; you really don't notice the difference
as long as you stay below 5msec.

Perhaps a nice related story;
A while ago I've written a full blown Guitar amp simulator
that runs on an old 350Mhz Celeron/16Mb Ram PC
with real 0.6msec (In to out) Latency entirly in software.
I could even go lower, but the point is;
even if I switch from 0.6 to 2, 4 or 5msec, there's no 'feelable' difference.

cheers.

Maddogg6

Sure... but I was talking about the difference between headphones and say an amp in another room or in a iso box. (monitoring the mic's sound)
No argument that theres added 'air delay' - but seems most guitarists will almost automatically compensate for this. What ever the latency may be - I never measured...

none the less - I posted what my experience was... others can do as they like with it..

And YOU ARE SUCH A TEASE... other people are gonna see your post (getting 2.6 and .6 ms) and bug the shit out of you on how you did it.... hmmmmm - I think you may regret it - and you eventually say; 'yeah - MD6 was right - just use KX effects or whet ever...' rtfl

Lex Nahumury

I doubt it since I've posted the very same info almost a year ago.
In the end I removed the thread since I felt it was not kXrelated.

alienbee

cool topic guys,
ITs tricky in ableton to get a good latency without it soundng cracklie and use a cab sim like guitar rigs cab sim at the same time durring recording..
what i did is bypass monitoring the sound through ableton (DAW) and sent it out from the input to the rear out jacks inside the dsp directly.

Its always nice to play/record/monitor the guitar sound with what is acually going on tape
so to get that vibe wile the playing i see that some people have to plug in somthing like the motherload
http://www.motherloadusa.com/motherl...g-products.asp
just to here what they are putting down.

the motherload site has some good samples of what it sounds like.
http://www.motherloadusa.com/motherl...box-listen.asp
I belive for 999$ it better sound good on a track.


I can get a close cabinet sound using the EF-X Tube Drive using the input BP filter and the LP filter settings.

My chain is like this:
SGX2000 - Loop1 Send/Return Jack=Gainiac2 - Out to AUX IN (mono L) - Direct out (L) - SRC to EF-X Tube (R)- DAW
records best without clicks at 21ms while monitoring through ableton, but sending it out directly after the EF-X Tube and not using abltone to monitor i can record at 8ms without noticing the clicks..
somhow im may be getting all this wrong....
but im still tryen to get a good cab sound to monitor and record with durring the recording process..wihout having to mic up.
getting somthing before ableton within the DSP would be ideal...

I did find out last night that i could load up the Guitar rig or amplitube as a stand alone using the ASIO dRv and fire up ableton and switch the drv to DX and i dont get the latency errors of to many channels.

I have yet to test it recording a track with ezdummer active on the fly..
will do so tonight.





http://guitar-sound.info/ha.ra?dd24S...e579201878d004