Gaming Today: GTX 260 V Radeon 4870

Zardon

Read The Review Here
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Unless someone wants to spend considerable money there are really only two options for gaming enthusiasts, two cards which provide performance high enough to play the latest games at high detail without requiring a bank loan, the GeForce GTX 260 and Radeon HD 4870 1Gb. The question is, which is the fastest now that many driver revisions have passed since release?

blibbax

"As this is an OC model we know that BFG will have pushed the card’s clock speeds higher, in this case 590MHZ core, 999MHz memory and 1296MHz shader. For those who cannot remember the clocks on the original GTX 260 they were 576/999/1242MHz so BFG have been able to increase each significantly."

Are you sure about that significant memory increase?

Great article all in all though.

Rediculous that Crysis needs to drop to a 15" monitor before it'll run on high settings with a £180 graphics card.

OmegaRED

The 260GTX is usually slightly ahead of the 4870 in all tests but the tipping point for me had to be PhysX; it used to be something I didn't care about but now that it's become standard on Nvidia cards it provides a boost in framerates as well as additional gameplay experience that the AMD series can't match.

Lelisevis

Couple of questions.

Firstly i've been eyeing up a BFG 260 GTX for a while but I was going to opt for the even higher clocked OCX model. Would I be wasting my money jumping from a pair of 8800GTS 640mb's in SLI? I know logically the answer would seem yes but please bare in mind the reduced heat, power usage and option to add another GTX card in the future should it be needed. On top of that having a single card would alleviate any potential SLI profile issues. Anyone able to show some comparitive figures? Finally I haven't really got my head around this physx thing but would it be possible to use the GTX as my primary display and just use a single 8800 to handle the physics processing?

So many questions, hopefully it makes sense. Any comments or advice would be much appreciated.


*Almost forgot, should probably leave this in feedback but on 2 of the pages I was getting all of the background, graphs and links to gamingheaven but I wasnt getting the text summary at the bottom. IE had finished loading the page and showed done. Like I say most of the pages had it but 2 it didnt appear.

Lelisevis

If that memory icrease is not enough for you they also do a 260 OCX model with 655/1125/1404.

edit: arghhhh I've sinned, im sure this is the first time i've double posted ever (*shuffles off to sit in noob corner and dribble in my pants*).

Kizo

I saw this today: Fudzilla - ATI's new driver comes on December 10th
Maybe this driver will be something like nVidia 180 drivers, and again even out the performance of GTX260 216 and HD4870 1GB... who knows?

kris23

so thats that then....... GTX 260 Core 216s are the king of the hill!

Alex

The new nvidia drivers are very impresive, I noticed large gains in a few games myself, almost to the point of buying an upgraded video card.

The 4870 is a good card and im sure ATI will answer back with this driver they are talking about. They would need to though looking at those figures, seems pretty much a no brainer now with which card to go for on the run up to christmas.

brutusmaximus

quite good gains with that new forceware. good article, interesting reading.

artdexigner

blibbax

I'm not sure about comparitive performance figures, though you could check out the Tom's Hardware charts.

If you want to have two GTX260s in SLI, remember that the longer you can wait the chaper they'll get (or maybe even better alternatives will appear).

Also, I would reccomend buying a stock clocked GTX260 and then bios flashing it to the core, memory, shader and fan speeds that you desire. The hardware is identical.

Chaos

If so it's sad that these 2 major players hold back on performance of their products just for the sake of having some reserve to fight the competitor

Al_Vampyre

I'm always tempted but seeing as I game at 1680x1050 my 8800GTX is doing just fine...haven't even clocked it yet, once I need to do that then I might consider buying a new card.

OmegaRED

The new Nvidia drivers support such a configuration; I plan on running my 260GTX as the main card and my old 8800GTS as the PhysX renderer until I SLI 260's (then you can't use the 8800GTS for Physx).

longhorn1000

this shows how important the drivers are and that the Nvidia driver team really is (being totally fair), the better of the two.

Catalyst drivers have improved a lot but the forcewares are still the cream.

Might pick up a 260 GTX and try a mismatched phsyX setup.

humonous

Nah, I don't think its like that. I think its a constant battle between them and they are pushing as hard as they can. I just wonder though how many of these tweaks from both teams affect IQ? I sometimes wonder how they get 5-10% gains without cutting a corner here and there....

Cow_160483

Nice review its really got me thinking of which is the better card but i will wait for the new drivers B4 deciding .
My advice to every one out there is take your time and choose wisely.

TT2

Despite the slightly higher performance of GTX 260 Core 216, I consider Radeon 4870 to be a clear winner because of the price range in which its available.

AMD ATI has created new standards in price vs performance category and Nvidia has no answer for that.

OmegaRED

I disagree with that. I checked newegg.com and there's only a $20 difference between the EVGA 260gtx and a 512mb 4870. The 1gig version costs more than the 260GTX that's hardly a clear winner.

TT2

Yes that's right, there is only a 20$ difference b/w them right now but what was the price of GTX260 and GTX280 when they were released ?

Its a defensive measure and perhaps a very hard decision for Nvidia to reduce the prices of their high end cards (GTX260 and GTX280) and they were forced to take this decision (thanks to ATI).

ATI is wise in developing their gfx cards, they choose GDDR5 to achieve high performance in 4870 while Nvidia choose GDDR3 for their new gfx cards. GDDR5 is expensive but not as expensive as developing a 512-bit or 448-bit bus for gfx cards.

1. 4870 deliver high performance through GDDR5 with a 256-bit bus.

2. GTX260 deliver high performance through a bus of 448-bit with GDDR3.

The first option is cheaper and has higher performance than normal GTX260 plus great memory overclocking potential.

Its important to mention that 4870 clearly outperforms normal GTX260 so Nvidia secretly tweaked their GTX260 and released a new card (GTX260 core 216). There is no architectural improvements in that card they just tweaked it by turning on a disabled core and now its just a card closer to GTX280, nothing special (Now that is a defensive measure indeed). So who is the clear winner now ?

You should read this article by AnandTech

AnandTech: The Radeon HD 4850 & 4870: AMD Wins at $199 and $299

If you are not interested in reading full article then make sure you read the last page, it has pretty interesting facts about the price as well as performance of 4850 and 4870.

OmegaRED

I don't know where this myth started but the 260GTX is faster than the 4870. What's funny is that people will admit the 216 core version is faster yet it has nearly identical performance as the 192 core in all games...HardOCP did an article on it a while back.

Regardless, as the DH review showed the 4870 and 260gtx are neck and neck in most cases and the price is almost the same so realistically it comes down to whether you want to go with SLI or Crossfire and if you value PhysX over HDMI audio.

TT2

With utmost respect bro,

All these articles are from the renowned reviewers and its not a myth, the one from AnandTech I mentioned in my previous post and the one goes here

Crysis - Tom's Hardware : Radeon HD 4870: Better Than GTX 260!

You are right that Radeon 4870 and GTX260 are quiet close in performance but you still get a benefit of GDDR5 as well as the great performance of Crossfire which scales quiet well when compared to SLI. Not to mention that Crossfire is also supported by a wide variety of MB manufacturers.

Nvidia reduced the prices of GTX260 to catch up with 300$ price range of ATI's almost same performer otherwise the GTX260 was priced at 400$ (in the beginning).

Anyway, you are also right that its a matter of choice and liking than anything else

So happy gaming bro....

brutusmaximus

Well to be fair, Omega is pretty much hitting the nail on the head. I wouldnt take anything tomshardware say to heart (renowned reviewers? ermmm Tomshardware are pretty much known as a joke). Anandtech maybe, but I prefer the accuracy of the DH reviews. Hardocp aren't bad either if Kyle can get his head out of his arse.

With regards to the results. I have both 4870 and 260 GTX here and most of the time the 260 is faster, I still firmly believe the forceware drivers are vastly superior to the shoddy AMD drivers. GDDR5 is great for sure, but if the end result (what you are playing) is much the same as the Nvidia part who cares? lets be honest. As for Crossfire? dear lord, id say one in 10 games works right with it. waste of time, utterly.

TT2

Driver is a big factor in hardware performance (that's for sure) but AMD recently improved their catalyst drivers. My friend has GTX260 and I know its fast in many places but 4870 is not slower either specially when it comes to high resolutions, AA and AF.

Practically I also don't like Crossfire as well as SLI because games work way better on single cards rather than in Crossfire or SLI the reason again is the unavailablity of a proper driver. The scaling of Crossfire and SLI is very much dependant on driver and whether that driver works good with a particular game.

Tom's Hardware.... a joke, hmm I am reading their articles from quiet some time and I don't see any thing which make them jokers. AnandTech is also a decent site. I also visit guru3d and they also say the same thing which I have mentioned in my previous posts that AMD ATI is a winner from price point of view but the decrease in prices from Nvidia is a good counter measure. Can't say anything about DH because I just recently joined it but I have to admit their article on GTX260 Core 216 vs ATI Radeon 4870 impressed me.

Here I am not debating on whether ATI is a winner or Nvidia is a winner, I am just trying to say that Nvidia should price their products carefully because ATI is providing almost same and some times better performance at a very competitive price.

Plus GTX260 Core 216 is a desperate move in proving that they (Nvidia) are still the market leaders, the card was not needed at all but they still released it to gain the upper hand. A proper name for this card should be GTX270 because its not a new card, its just a tweaked card which is closer to GTX280 in performance.

Zardon

While this sounds like im being diplomatic both cards are really at the end of the day fantastic. you can't go wrong with either.

dodobv

U are really diplomatic, but anyway those cards are a bit expensive in my opinion for a "everyday job".
Yes, you`re right both cards are very good, and you can`t miss a detail with both them, but if the prices were a little more down i can say that it really worth an upgrade from 8xxx and 3xxx series.

SiliconDoc

Thank you so much. I was beginning to wonder if everyone was a lying red freak.
I have been wondering about the myth as well, and it might have something to do with the driver releases - or the hatred of the little cheapsters handing dollars over to NVidia for prior upgrades, or the GDDR5 craze, or perhaps they have been long time AMD freakers.
Anyway, the gigantic BIAS is anything but gone.... the red freaks tell every lie and spin in the books, they ought to all sign up for master politicians yesterday. Consider this:
1. Nvidia has PhysX - ati does not
2. NVidia runs Havok just fine however.
3. NVidia is said to have panicked with the 216 core, but ati has a 512 4780, and the 1024 isn't "panicking".
4. Power consumption of the 260 is one to three watts more in 3d than 4870 - so the reds scream they've won that, too. Problem for the reds is the 260 is 30 watts less in idle than the 4870.
(It was funny watching red reviewers declare the 4870 the power saving winner in their charts, then comment they just can't understand the 260 at idle...so low... it just had to be wrong... LOL )
5. The 260 overlcocks WAY BETTER THAN THE 4870. Strangely, overlcock comparisons are UTTERLY BANNED from the net, since the 4870 loses so terribly.
6. Even this great review I was happy to see, faile to mention the standard 216 is clocked at 602, not 576 like the 192.
7. The 260 and 280 scale wonderfully, a whole lot better than the 4870CF/x2 , and only after tremendous efforts by ati have they solved smoe of that problem while breaking other games in the process. Even after the FIXES 8.9, 8.10. now past 8.12 or whatever it is - the 4870 still DOES NOT SCALE AS WELL AS THE 260 - OR THE 280 - it's BEHIND.
( reds just can't admit it - it's right in every chart anyone has seen, but instead of actually admitting it , they suddenly "can't stand crossfire or SLI)
8. Right after telling us they can't support crossfire or SLI - they scream the 4870x2 is the single best card out there....
( now the GTX295 has kicked the crap out of the 4870x2, so all they can say is "it ain't true" or NVidia panicked and is late )
Next thing they'ell do is claim they're getting a 4870x2, since it's not too late for that ! lol
Then they'ell say the gtx295 is a power hog ... (suddenly power matters, but no power mattered when the 4870x2 or 4870 was hogging the grid)
9. the 4870 and x2 (1024 2048/x2 ONLY !!!!! ) sometimes takes the very highest rezz win with aa/af - but most all of us don't have a $1,500.00 flat panel monitor, nor can we afford one, yet we can buy a 400-500 vidcard...
After screeching about a single win in highest rezz with aa af on high, 2650x *whatever it is (*noone really remembers because people crybabying about a $50 or $100 card difference don't have a $1,500.00 Monitor), they declare the 4870 the overall winner, when it lost 9 of 10 of the other game benches in nearly every other resolution, and they play in 1440/900 or if they're lucky 1080 - but the most common resolution for gaming according to all the current polls is 1280 x 1024 - which most 17" crt's and beyond can do without destroying themselves.(which means most of em need a cheap flat panel stil)
So these screeching whiners about their cherished red magical (loser card) won't be playing in that magical rezz anyway - at least 99% of them won't be.
10. ati can't make a single GPU card that equals the NVIDIA GTX280 - they just CAN'T DO IT - THEY CAN'T DO IT.

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Only in the crazy world of red worship - like in communism or in orwellian lies, worse is better, more is less, less is more, and hatred for "big brother" (nvidia the "ruler") is ever present.

Yes, we all need to cheer for the underdog ati red properly, yes it's an american tradition ( GAG !).

I've never seen so much BS in all my life - from supposedly geeky people.
They all screamed the GTX295 reviews were biased except for ONE at hardocp that had the 4870x2 winning in a single highest playable resolution.... LOL 1920x ....
Yes, it's just absolutely amazing.

Anyway, thank you and the Brutus guy for speaking up to the raging red - and not buying the bs.

I was so happy when I saw this review and I commented to my friend I hadn't seen any red freaks in the thread as I was on post #19... then guess what...

Haha, just wonderful.

If you look at the bandwidth numbers, the golden sample 4870 is way higher (128 or whatever it was) than standard, and the gtx260/216 is LOWER than standard (111 or so).

But the GTX260 STILL WINS.

I have ati and nvidia cards, many of each, but I can't stand this latest lie like a rug fest from ati playas.

The MSI factory 260/192 oc (620) sports 121GBs/sec., and I'd bet that spanks the 4870 1 gig more often than not. ( No I don't play in 2650 rezz on my 30 inch Dell DWP monitor that costs $2,967.00 - because I haven't bought it yet!)

Red fan boys - EAT MY SHORTS !

SiliconDoc

Ok, well Merry Christmas to everyone.

I feel better thank you.

Oh yeah, you can use yer series 8 and beyond card now for PhysX processing, alongside your 8x,9x, or GT200 Nvidia card - in a NON SLI BOARD - even in a crossfire board - and you relieve the main gpu and the secondary does PhysX processing - a simple click in the desktop html like light running CP.

I bet if reds had something that COOL - they would be SCREAMING ABOUT VALUE !

Oh goddd we'd never hear the end of how much value that imputes to yuor upgrade path and how much THEY CARE ABOUT THE CUSTOMER WHO SPENT MONEY ON A FORMER CARD!!!

Oh but since it's NVidia and the nvidia gamers know they have a good thing - why it means nothing - since the raging reds are too busy lying, lying , lying...

Did I mention the red don't load the bloated CCC usually ? Yes their company ships that as part of the standard install, but it sucks really, really badly (at least it's cleaned up and a bit lighter now perhaps)....

Heck the standard red driver set with required dotnet 2.0 and bloat-o-crash-panel CCC with greyed out tabs ISN'T EVEN INSTALLED BY THE RED FANS !!!!
Then they have the GAUL - to claim ati drivers have no more problems than nvidia ones do...

Yeah, and I'm an independent, self made, mutli billionaire, too.

SiliconDoc

If you're a drooling red fan filled with hatred no nvidia card is ever needed.

" Plus GTX260 Core 216 is a desperate move in proving that they (Nvidia) are still the market leaders, the card was not needed at all but they still released it to gain the upper hand."

OH LOOK, THE CORE 216 HAS THE UPPER HAND ! GEE AM I GOING TO HEAR THE 4870 WINS IN THE NEXT BREATH ? I PROBABLY ALREADY DID.

Dear Santa,

I've been good all year except when I encounter a red, then I suddenly become the evil disruptor some say. Santa, I thought telling the truth was a good thing, why is it bad now ?

From the North Pole:

Well Sili,
It's kind of like Global Warming that Santa has been hearing about. They keep telling me I'm out of business soon, but this year again I needed a couple of extra reindeer just to leap and bound over the giant snow banks. Santa understands. Now since you weren't the best you'll get something green, uhh... and red, for xmas.

MERRY CHRISTMAS

SiliconDoc

Aren't we a bit "dated"....:

red rager: " You should read this article by AnandTech

AnandTech: The Radeon HD 4850 & 4870: AMD Wins at $199 and $299

If you are not interested in reading full article t... BLAH BLAH BLAH .."

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tHAT WSA POSTED ON dECEMBER 7TH HERE.... but the anand article is dated July 3rd.... JULY - a freaking FULL LIFETIME flip in the videocard world....

Since the non panicking 4870 (512) is sucking wind WELL below $200 now in some cases, and the GTX260 (192) is still commanding $200-$260 and even (216) $280=$300 in oc'ed versions, are we ready to admit the "green killer" is LOSING ?

Will we hear that NVidia "panicked" again soon concerning the GTX295 ? Will raging reds scream NVidia is a bad because they BEAT the 4870x2 and DIDN'T NEED A GIGANTIC REWORKED CORE TO SLAM IT TO THE MAT ?

Is that what the reds will say about ati when they release their next high end piece - that they are PANICKING ? That the card ISN'T NEEDED ? That they just had to go grabbing at the crown - and say it in a smarmy, negative, put down fashion ?

How many raging reds get paid by the corporate structure of AMD, because it sure seems like they should be getting paid for frapping....(that means flapping their freaking lips)

Here's another one I just can't stand, it's as if red boy likes getting ripped off !

" Well, ati can drop it's price on the 4870 and still make money, whereas NVidia will take a huge hit trying to keep up since they have such a gigantic GPU die... not as many cards per wafer..."

Oh really ? So ATI is robbing you blind red fan, charging you a lot more than they have to, while NVidia is scraping by, giving their comsumers a whole lot of GPU 1.4 million transistors and a big die.... and barely above their cost ! ?

LOL - but then red fan screasm Nvidia is a price gouger! " holy crapioli red robin ! "

Yes, the deranged red fan .... corpo lackey boy... kissin that profit for the redcorp they dragged from their own wallet and kissed goodbye, and they argue that's good.