3dmark03, what should I upgrade?

MakoSX

First off I'd like to say this is an awesome board, I've found a lot of answers to my 9600XT issues and tweaking. The omega drivers are working awesome for me, I was getting a lot of random problems with the drivers on the ASUS and ATI sites.
Specs:
mobo Soyo SY-K7V Dragon Plus
vidcard Asus 9600XT 128mb-new omega drivers
ram Kingston 2100ddr 512 mb
HD's Western digital 80gig main/IBM 20gig backup
WIN XP PRO
AMD Athlon XP 1800+

I just got the vid card a few days ago and ran a benchmark for my first time. 3dmark03.
Heres what I got, i did my adjustments with smartdoctor:

test 1: vidcard at default settings that smartdoctor resets to everytime i restart my comp for some reason. mem:ddr 600(297mhz), lowest setting. engine: 500mhz. AA set at 2x AF at 8x.

Score: 2252
cpu: 234

Test 2: smartdoctor set to max mem: 351mhz engine: 530 AA 2x AF 8x
Score: 2667
cpu: 286

Test 3: smartdoctor maxed again. This time i moved the default tab to performance and AA/AF were set to application preference.
Score: 3898
cpu:286

Is this about where I should be with the specs I currently have? I'm thinking of upgrading using the mobo I currently have, what would be the best thing to do first? Soyo hasnt been very helpful, they never returned my emails and I had to dig to find a phone number and their tech support basically had no answers for how far i can upgrade. But on their site it says i cant go over a 2100+ palomino and ddr 2100, is this true?


Mako

Roadee

It would be best for you to submit your score to Future Mark and do a search and compare for systems matching your specs. That will show you just were you are for your system. If you are wanting more out of your system as far as performance and upgradability........I would suggest you upgrade your mother board to something like the Abit NF7-S or similiar nForce 2 motherboard. That way you have a proven performance platform and you will be able to use your current hardware until you can upgrade the CPU and memory at a later time.

The mother board is your limiting factor......that is where I would start.

Judas

I agree.... Mobo first.... CPU second... Ram later on...

MakoSX

Alright thanks for the help guys. Do you recommend going with something that will support my cpu or should I just wait for the prices on the AMD 64 stuff to come down?



Mako

Judas

well i'm a bit of a bind ....

BTX layed out cases and mobo's as well as other hardware are saposed to start showing up this year....

not only that.... 64 bit is comming alot quicker then alot of people see..... the change over is starting to take off rapidly...

I'd have to say... upgrading or changing a few things is going to be hard to decide on in the next year or 2.....


as for you right now.... i think that i wouldn't wait..... waiting gives you more pain in the end sometimes...

All socket A mobo's support your CPU.. and ram.. so that won't be a problem... resale value is up there as well

If i were to recommend any boards... (lets say you decide to keep the board/machine around for an alternate computer or server station)

the Abit Nf7-S rev 2 are reknown for being at the top of the list (i myself have thoroughly enjoyed abit and recommend them.... IF YOU EVER have a problem with them.... just return the board and get a replacement.... AND MAKE SURE you get at least a guaranteed 30 day refund/replacement warranty from the people you buy it from)

Also... theres a newer Abit AN7 that.... currently has mixed feelings on.. Zardon has it and is rather very impressed by it.. (as am i).. this board would give you the best future proofing as possible.... but the NF7-s rev 2.0 is still top....

(btw.. the AN7.... depending on who's providing... has gotten a few worrysome reviews and i doubt it's abit's problem... shipping or something maybe... but check around... .read some reviews)

Check and see what you want to get on the board.. what's a appealing..

I myself find Highpoint Technology IDE/Sata controllers something to look at .... specially the ability to have count em... up to 10 drives support... excluding firewire/usb

Also.. onboard LAN.... Sound (the is optional as i have a sound card which will overtake any onboard solution) Firewire/USB1.0/2.0 and extras.... internal... fan headers... and so on.... look around.. see what ones are in your price range and report back here with your select... we can comment on them and recommend...

BTW.. your CPU is still of good quality and speed... it's not amazing.. but it's good enough to do everything you like (3Dmark is not a good example of computer preformance)

I myself have a 1900+ and a 950Duron.... they still produce the results i need.. the 950 duron being my server for files... printing.... and dedicated servers for games such as COD and UT2K3 as well HALO (which btw are all being ran at the same time)....

MakoSX

Okay, thanks for the info Judas. I just read one of the topics on the PCI-ex tech thats coming out so I think I'll just wait on that. Since 2100ddr is pretty affordable now I just went and got another 512 yesterday that gave me a noticeable improvement in all the sims I play. Soyo says I can only go up to a 2100+ palomino, which I will probably do, www.pricewatch.com, not an expensive upgrade. I'm just wondering if I really can only go up to a 2100+ palomino. I remember a few months back soyo had bios updates you could download on their site that would allow my board to support cpu's larger than a 2100+. When I checked a few weeks ago they had removed those bios updates and all its says now is I cant go beyond a 2100+ Oh and I checked my 3dmark03 scores like suggested, looks like my system is scoring above the average. good enough for me
I've never installed a mobo either so thats why I figured I'd wait on it, I dont feel like melting $300 bucks



Mako

dipstick

With your system I would follow the advice given above, although I have to say that a new cpu and mobo will do almost nothing to improve your 3DMark '03 score. This test totally isolates your video card so don't expect anything more out of it even if you get a Athlon 64. 3DMark '01 on the other hand will see a huge improvement with a new cpu/mobo.

Judas

....If you pay attention to what your doing.... and take your time .... you won't have a single problem... double.... triple check your board alignment to the case... cable connections.... settings.... jumpers... what have you before you flip the switch to the PSU....

Zardon

I agree totally, the biggest way to improve your 3dmark03 scores is to buy a 9800 XT, which unfortunately for most isnt an option. 3dmark03 is virtually totally GFX dependent.

for example I hit around 7200 with my overclocked 9800 XT, and beat alot of people on A64 chips (with my overclocked barton). yet in 3dmark01 i hit around 20,000 whereas the same A64 based system would hit 21,000-22,000.

MakoSX

Well on second thought maybe I should follow your advice then if its not as hard as you say it is Judas. I checked out the boards you mentioned but I dont real understand what a lot of the things are that they are equiped with. Like as far as Serial ata 150, will it work with the hardware I have? My cd/dvd/zip/my backup HD/and floppy drive are all from my Gateway I bout about 4 yrs ago, but my primary HD is a brand new WD 80gig and I have an antec tower with a 450w power supply. What I do know is that I need quite a few usb ports, pci slots, agp 8x, and ddr2100 compatibility for my ram. I dont really need good onboard sound or Lan because I have quality PCI cards for both. And I know I'll have questions on install so I'll definitely need to go with a brand that has good telephone support, and has a quality product thats easy to install. So do you still recommend Abit over the rest? Oh and one more question, I noticed theres two primary chipsets Via KT400 & 600 and nforce2, is one better than the rest? Sorry theres so many questions , but ty for the help

Mako

The_Neon_Cowboy

thats true ... but i see the fallowing bottle necks...

----
266 mhz bus (not 333 or 400mhz)
APG 4x
PC2100 ram (not pc 2700 or higer)
1800+ 266 bus cpu (333 and 400mhz amd models are now available at reasonable prices)

----

even then you'll not see too much of a gain on defult in 3dmark2003 I get 3732, thats with no overclocking what so ever.

i'm running a 2500+ 333 with 1 gb pc3500 mem and a7n8x mobo

so even if you get a 9800xt you see a huge boost but other things wil still be putting on the breakes

No_Style

Get an NF7 or an A7N8X with 2500+, 2 sticks of 256 MB PC2700 from Crucial, Geil, or Kingston (or higher).. Getting those items would pretty much round out your system and bring things up to par. I'd honestly would just set a decent budget of no more than $400 USD and build around that....maybe even no more than $300 USD.

P.S - Benchmarks are great to gauge your performance, but don't fuss over them too much. Look at what you do with your computer or what games you play on it. There are a lot of games (Mainly Q3 based) which would benefit a lot more with higher memory rates and faster CPU.

Judas

Well.... what specs you have posted.... most of all AMD Socket A Motherboards will support what you have.....

You might want to post up your other parts thought....

They should work flawlessly.. if not better with a newer mobo.... Problem being that you might have to look at a new case if your still using the gateway case..... (doubt it)...... 450 Watt PSU is perfect and should provide enough power to even be able to slap in the latest cpu's including some future ones...

You seem to be in need of lots of IDE channels... USB Ports.... PCI slots.... basically... you look like you need a very powerfull/Featurerich motherboard.... And we all know.. the less external/port expanding equipment.... the more smooth and quickly things run....

I myself don't need onboard sound.... but it's a nice selling point for whoever might be looking for just someone trying to get something up and running a cheaply as possible.... Onboard lan is actually proveing to be quite good.... I've been tedias to even think about using them... as the first boards to produce them.. have had horror stories to tell.... but within the last year or 2... things look fast.. and smooth.... Better then even some of my own Quality PCI cards.... less resource hogs... and less to power for that matter.. more room over all

hrmm... I've been told by a few people that Abit has rather terrible RMA and some technical ... support....problems .... not to sure at all though.. i've no experience with them... never had a problem....

All i do is MAKE SURE that whoever i buy my boards from.... that they have a 30 DAY Guarantee of refund/replacement if the product isn't working right....

Also.. Abit's manual is very well layed out and can explain everything to you more easily then some person over the phone.....

I myself.. will always recommend ABIT...


Well the KT400 is the oldest... (consider though that there are 2 revisions of it.. KT400 and KT400a.. the later being the better more updated one)

The KT600 is the newest out from via supporting AMD..... i myself have one board built on this... and i can say that it's pretty damn good.... solid... and speedy ... also more futureproof... and more support for it...

The Nforce 2... (Ultra) if also very very good.... i can't really say much on it as i've YET to touch one.. i've tried to get one a few times... but shipments here are crap... the Abit NF7-S Rev2.0 board has this chipset.... and it's the hottest motherboard from abit for the AMD cpu....(hot being the most on demand)

I currently have a Abit AT7-MAX2 Motherboard with the KT400 chipset... this board i think is for you..... it has dozens... and i mean.. dozens of USB ports... alot of IDE ports.. (support up to 8 IDE devices @ UDMA 6/ATA133) and 2 Serial ATA Ports.. (all are RAIDable with 0/1/0+1/1+0/5 support and the most excellent onboard controller: Highpoint Technology 374) along with a Floppy port...... No Printer port.. no COM port...... It's a massive board... very good... 4 DDR Slots... up to 4GB max.... 6 PCI slots and a full speed 8x AGP....

I'm more interested in the newest MAX board that Abit is supplying now... it's saposed to be a top ranked KT600 board... sporting all the features i have

NF7-S would be for those wanting the most used.. and supported board...
Max series are for those wanting a pile of features and quality....

But also remember.. as it's been pointed out.... 3DMark2003's Scores will not be boosted with any upgrades other then a new powerfull Video card... (yes.. you will see an increase... but VERY marginal)

Anything other than 3Dmark... major boost....