Need Midi-Emulator

HAARP · Jan 21, 2006, 12:29 PM

Hi,
I've got a VMware machine here (it's an emulated computer) running Windows 95. Sound emulation is ES1371/SB128 with the newest Creative Drivers.
I've got this machine for running older games which won't on my XP. Now, when I try to play Z on it, the sound is alright, expect the Midi music. It's all badly distorted, i can barely make out the melody.
I think the problem lies within the Internal Midi Synth of the Pseudo-soundcard. What I need is some kind of Midi Emulator which i can choose instead of the Internal Routines in Multimedia Properties - Midi. The Midi-sound should be synthesised and put on the Wave-Output
Is there something like that? CPU-power shouldn't be a problem.
Thanks in advance

Eck · Jan 21, 2006, 03:19 PM

Ah, a problem that has a fix that was figured out by folks in the VMWare forums!

I used it, and it fixed the midi problem using those SB128 WDM's you're using.

You have to go to the folder where your guest OS's are (usually in My Documents\My Virtual Machines, or something like that.)

Open the .vmx file (Windows98.vmx for me, as that's what I named the guest) in notepad.

Add the lines -

pciSound.DAC1InterruptsPerSec = 0
pciSound.DAC2InterruptsPerSec = 0

This also fixes wave sounds sometimes being played at a higher pitch or too fast.

I did it right after I created the guest and it worked for me. I also got a copy of the EAPCI8M.ECW and put it in the System folder of the guest and switched to that in Device Manager. This is a larger, better midi sound set than the default 2M one.

HAARP · Jan 21, 2006, 06:28 PM

I already searched the VMware forums, but couldn't find anything about that. Neither the modified File nor the 8M waveset worked. Thanks anyway!
Could you give me a link to the thread if you find it?
btw, I'm using VMware Workstation 5.0.0

SB128 WDMs? My drivers a VXDs. Didn't know 98 supports WDMs, but im pretty sure 95 doesn't. Could this be the problem?

**dj_stick** · Jan 21, 2006, 06:49 PM

win98se does support WDM, but iirc there are some issues
no OS previous to that supports WDM

Eck · Jan 21, 2006, 08:22 PM

Hm, the fix worked for me.

Actually I used to have a SB16PCI until I put it into my sister's computer to help and then a year later found out she threw the computer into the garbage to make room.

Nice, eh?

Anyway, I still have the cd so when I use VMWare I install the whole Creative package from the cd then update it with the WDM driver downloaded from Creative. It's the same driver listed in the SB16, and PCI128 download sections, so I figured you were using that.

The vxd's should work fine though, after putting those settings in.

I started with VMWare 5.0, but did you know the update to 5.5 is free? And there is a security issue if you use NAT ethernet, as I do since I never could get bridged to work. But the patch to 5.5.1 is also free. You just need to update the Tools once you install the new version.

I had some problems with the tools update, so I burned the windows.iso in the VMWare folder to a cdr and installed the tools from that.

I also had that midi problem with the vxd's but that disappeered after applying the WDM update. Then I encountered the fast, high pitched wave playback on the VMWare 5.5 that I didn't have on 5.0. That's when I browsed the forums and found out about that fix, and it worked for me with the WDM's.

If you're using a 95 guest, you can't use the WDM's. And if you use 98SE, make sure you do all the Windows Updates. You can manually get all of them from mdgx.com. Especially the WDM audio and USB updates if you want to use WDM audio. The WDM and USB updates must be installed before installing your soundcard drivers for the correct files to be used. Newer Creative install cd's install these as part of their setup routine.

Another option that I used for midi was the Yamaha S-YXG50. I have 2 9x versions of that, as well as the WDM 4.0 XP version downloaded from the Guillemot website in the section for my old MaxiSoundMuse card. For that on XP with other soundcards I need to modify a file so it detects that I have the correct soundcard for it.

But if you can get a hold of the 98 version of the Yamaha it offers super midi playback for midi music and games. It's just poor for keyboard input, as the latency is set automatically and you can't adjust it so there's a delay.

You do need a password for it though. I'm lucky since I have both the MaxiSoundMuse and the Phillips Acoustic Edge, which came with the 9x version of the S-YXG50. The MaxiSoundMuse one is the newer version so I use that for 9x.

Perhaps if you specifically browse to the midi ecw file in the device manager settings and click on it, rather than just setting it from the drop-down menu, it could work.

I too had trouble with the vxd built in midi playback of the SB16 driver. The wdm only worked properly with default VMWare settings until 5.5. With 5.5 I needed to make that change to the vmx file, but then it worked.

HAARP · Jan 22, 2006, 05:13 PM

Upgraded to VMware 5.5 now. Midi got better, but still distorted
I don't have Win98 here, so I can't update to it to get WDMs to work. Gotta work with the VXDs

Google says that Yamaha thing is a SoftSynthesizer, that would exactly be what i need. I'm gonna try that out. Thanks!

edit: oops, looks like I can't just download it somewhere. How to get it?

Eck · Jan 23, 2006, 12:40 AM

Well, that's a tough one. If you don't have a friend with a copy it's tough to find anymore.

Another possibility is WinGroove. That you can search for since there's still a homepage for it and is even still available for purchase if you like the trial. I bought it, rather than using the workarounds (shall we call them that?) posted all over the place.

Besides wanting to thank the author for a nice program, I bought it because this thing DOES have an adjuster for the latency and I could use my Yamaha keyboard with programs on my computer with no delay. For listening to midi's I set it back to default as this sounds better.

It's not quite as nice sounding as the Yamaha S-YXG50 or Creative Soundfont's but it's pretty good. Much better than the Microsoft Synthesizer.

It installs as a driver so you can set it as your default system midi and you're all set.

Now, be sure to click to the Beta version as this is the latest and it's not really a beta. All he didn't add were updated help files. The full version help files are there, but he never redid tham for the new version.

Something else you can use is Synthfont, which lets you use soundfonts, but does not install as a driver so you would need to also install MidiYoke if you wanted to use it with other programs. But for just playing midi files, WHOOO, it sounds like you've got a modern Creative Soundfont compatible card installed. You just play them through the Synthfont program instead of your media players (unless you bother with MidiYoke).

The best all around solution for something that's still available at a reasonable price is WinGroove. But Synthfont is nice to play with. The new versions aren't free though.

By the way, you can use ANY soundfont with Synthfont! Utopia, Creative supplied soundfont files, anything. Not bad, eh?

HAARP · Jan 23, 2006, 04:52 PM

I only understand half of what you're saying

I'm not that much into Midi stuff. I know some basics, but that's it.

Got WinGroove now, that works fine, i'ts only a trial tho. Thanks for helping me out Eck!

Now on to other, non-sound-related problems! To the VM-cave!

xtp183 · Jan 25, 2006, 01:51 AM

!!

OMG! I gave up on trying to get the darn MIDI working (read: fixing the distortion) about 1 week ago, then I stumble upon this... goldmine! Bare with me guys, I'm gonna give this another shot

.....

And it works! Thanks Eck. You've made my day

Eck · Jan 28, 2006, 07:17 PM

I'm happy you guys got things working.

(You can still buy WinGroove, like I did, then it's not a trial anymore.)

Sorry it took so long to get back. I was playin' with running Windows 98SE as my main OS. For some reason, even after trying it on 2 motherboards, the A7V880 and the A7V333, I couldn't get past the point where I update the Visual C++ and MSN Messenger 7.0.

Everytime, one of those things would cause 98SE to freeze on startup with the message -

While initializing device IOS:
ERROR: Real Mode system memory allocation failed.

The only thing I could boot to was Safe Mode once that started. Once, uninstalling MSN Messenger 7.0 in Safe Mode got me started again, and installing MSN Messenger 6.2 didn't seem to do this. But once the Visual C++ files were updated, boom, no Windows normal boot.

I've never seen this problem before, but this it the first time in many years I've tried to run the SBLive 5.1 with the vxd drivers and the old LiveWare 3.0 (for the 5.1 card.)

I've read that soundcard vxd drivers aren't compatible with DRM. Perhaps these updated files have DRM stuff in them and bork the SBLive driver enough to prevent startup?

I have run 98SE as a dual-boot using WDM audio drivers and never came across this problem.

There was no IRQ conflict as I reserved IRQ 5 which, at least on the A7V333 board, lets the dos emulation use non-maskable interrupts. That didn't work on the A7V880, as reserving the IRQ had no effect, as the motherboard put ACPI Holder For PCI IRQ Sharing on IRQ 5 and nothing else would use it.

There was no use installing the dos driver, but the dos emulation within Windows provided by the Live worked fine.

Just no more Windows after updating it!

Bah! I just reinstalled XP and my new Audigy 2 ZS Platinum Pro. I'll show em'. I'll use dosbox and VMWare!

I think I'll search around for info on that problem, but I don't have my hopes up. Few are using 98 now, and technical information is probably pretty old.

JamesMeinken · Feb 7, 2006, 09:24 PM

I run Win98SE with an ASUS A7V333 motherboard and an ATI Radeon 9000 Pro AGP graphics card. I've had this same problem for awhile and found a solution.

First, boot into Safe Mode.

The trouble lies in your config.sys file. Change it to:

DEVICE=C:\WINDOWS\HIMEM.SYS /TESTMEM:ON
SHELL=C:\COMMAND.COM /E:1024 /P
Stacks=64,512
LASTDRIVE=Z

Delete or rem all the other lines. Your autoexec.bat file should also be clear unless you have a really, really old piece of hardware.

Try this and your Win98 boot-up problem should be solved.

Eck · Feb 8, 2006, 03:11 PM

Hmm, interesting.

I had nothing in my config.sysfile, and just a PATH statement in the Autoexec.bat. I need the path for the Resource Kit and the ATI Control Panel paths. It's proper, with the first item being %PATH%; and the rest. I do have to change what ATI puts there before rebooting since they just start the whole line over so it won't work.

I gave up on the SBLive for now. I know it works with the WDM set, and I have the cd from my SBO224 (I've got CT4760, SB0060. SB0100, SB0224) so I have the full set that contains the SBLive Unipack stuff for 98SE as well as XP. It's Creative's version of the Compaq cd with 98SE support added.

But I've got an Audigy 2 ZS Platinum Pro, so if I'm not gonna get dos VXD use I might as well use that.

Which, I'm doing. I installed 98SE with the 98SE Unnofficial Service Pack and the 98SE2ME stuff, along with the rest of the updates on mdgx.com. I'm using my Asus A7V880 with an ATI Radeon x850PRO, the Audigy 2 ZS Platinum, and a SATA Maxtor 250GB hard drive. As well as 1024MB of Crucial memory.

Hmm, 250GB on 98SE? Well, I don't think I'll run into the 98SE wrap around problem since this is a SATA via Bios, a Sata driver used, MSCONFIG set to not allow scandisk on bad shutdown, and Norton Utilities 2002 Disk Doctor set to replace Windows Scandisk. I've run it, and Norton SpeedDisk and Win Doctor without problems yet. I think it's similar to using an ATA PCI controller card as it uses its own driver rather than the Windows IDE Controller. That's just managing my cd drives.

For the memory, just a few additions to System.ini and I'm all set there, with Windows using all the memory.

I have printed out the lines you've mentioned, but I will say that when I've tried to use HIMEM.SYS in the config.sys file this computer hasn't been able to boot to Windows. It's a bit weird, as my ms-dos prompt's properties memory tab informs me that a 3rd party expanded memory manager has not been configured for EMS memory. Heh, I don't have any 3rd party manager but I suspect that the SATA driver sets things up this way. When I run this computer with an IDE drive I have expanded memory, but a very small amount.

Even the A7V333 only gave me around 420K of conventional memory back when I tried boot floppy booting with the SBLive dos drivers, cd, mouse, and expanded memory and smartdrive a while back.

It seems that if I want to play old style on hardware I need to use my Abit KT7A. Funny that's the only board I have that ran perfectly with the SBLive (with some bios adjustments). That 686B southbridge had to be adjusted to work with the Live, but once done it ran the dos stuff perfectly (and Windows stuff!) Heh, the capacitor's are bulging and leaking but everything stull works on that board. They haven't seemed to effect anything.

Bahh! I'll use Dosbox. This Audigy 2 sound is too much better than the Live. I'm not going back to that board (welll, maybe to play with someday.)

All I miss with the ATI card from XP is smartgart, overdrive, and the thing that reactivates the card if it crashes (I forget the name at the moment), as I need to manually point to the extracted ATI folder and pick the driver for device manager. The Control Panel setup works though. ATI MMC 9.13 works great for DVD's and VCD's! Strange, since it's not supposed to work on 98. I doubt the DVD installer would download it, but I have the setup file saved to a cdr from when I installed the decoder on XP, so I just point it to the folder on my HD and everything works.

98SE is still speedier than XP, especially Windows startup. So far, the internet protection programs and security stuff is compatible with it. After June things may change.

And, with the Via AGP drivers, I need to install the one from the 4443 4-in-1, install the Hyperion 5.04 and the USB driver, then manually update the PCI to PCI thing to the AGP driver (not the AGP 2.0 3.0 compatible one, but the normal one). This way I get AGP texturing and AGP 8.0. None of the newer AGP drivers turn on AGP on 98SE.

Full of info, eh? Well, the topics cover several subforums and I just wanted to put it all in one place rather than posting everywhere. Hope that's okay!

xtp183 · Feb 10, 2006, 12:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eck

98SE is still speedier than XP, especially Windows startup.

And at shutdown

. If there is anything to brag about 98, it's startup and shutdown times

.

Eck · Feb 10, 2006, 01:11 AM

Hey, now I even get Smartdrive! ATI released the Catalyst 6.2 for 9x/Me and, with some trouble after uninstalling the 5.9's using DriverCleaner, I updated to them.

The Cat installer now recognizes the card and sets up the driver itself, and I therefore get Smartgart again. The setup crashed (froze my mouse and Windows) after apparently taking care of everything. Although I needed to reset the computer to restart, everything was installed including the stuff in add/remove so I think all I missed was the final screen with the prompt to restart the computer.

That may have been caused by my uninstalling DAO after removing MMC. Sometimes that removes things related to install programs. No problem since I reinstalled all the MMC, DAO, etc stuff and everything works.

I did have Windows problems regarding the display after uninstalling the older Cat's. I did the usual things. Add/Remove programs. Uninstall ATI MMC, Parental Decoder, DVD Decoder, DAO. Restart. Uninstall ATI Control Panel, ATI Driver. Change the AutoExec Path statement removing the ATI reference.

When I checked the device manager before rebooting, I noticed that unlike all the previous times I've uninstalled ATI, this time the Radeon was still listed. So I updated the driver to the Standard PCI Graphics Adapter (VGA) and the Standard PCI Graphics Adapter for the secondary display. I then ran the Catalyst standalone uninstaller and rebooted to Safe Mode.

I noticed there that I had forgotten the WDM stuff so I booted to normal mode and removed the Network Microsoft TV/Video Connection but needed to go back to Safe Mode to remove the now Ghost ATI WDM stuff.

Once removed and rebooted again to Safe Mode I ran DriverCleaner and used the cleaners for what I had uninstalled.

The Display Adapters had looked fine in device manager in Safe Mode, but back in Windows I got an error message regarding the display card not working properly. The Display Adapters in Device Manager were gone. I tried applying the 16 Color, 8 Bit setting and rebooting but got the same result. I tried using the New Hardware Wizard and installed the Standard PCI Graphics stuff again, but although they would now show up, I couldn't install any monitors and kept getting that error message at startup.

Well, I said a prayer and ran the ATI WDM and Catalyst 6.2 setup's.

Eureka! That fixed everything. And since I put the DAO and MMC stuff back I suppose the system has all its parts again.

The only difference besides getting Smartgart is that the System.ini file boot section now shows the Standard PCI Graphics Adapter (VGA) as my display=.

That had been my experience with all my previous ATI cards, so I think that's okay. The only time that display= listed the Radeon was when I had installed the beta Catalyst 5.9's manually. And, maybe that had something to do with Windows not accepting the Standard PCI thing as my working display adapter while updating.

Anyway, it all works!