Power supplies

Arsh

Now, Mr. Tech's. I can prove what i am saying, Can you?

swimtech

Your dependence on whatever electrical/electronic theory you're relying upon for your argument just doesn't match the facts. The facts show, throughout multiple threads here in this forum for well over a year now, that what Crash Override, Necrosis, Disastropy, Hawk, and I are saying is so.

When the facts (what you can see happen, confirmed multiple times with positive results) on power supply requirements go against whatever theory, the theory becomes moot. Toss it. Revise it.

BTW, I'm not sure Dell knew (or cared enough) about power requirements for what they were selling either - or maybe they did (if you upgrade or pick a unit from them that has all the extras, you'll be power limited - they likely know that, and until very recently you were stuck purchasing a supply from them - mo money!). That's another issue altogether...

The proof for the statements made here are right here in this forum from many individuals whose problems were solved, by what you may consider going overboard, by purchasing a high wattage power supply - please take your time reading them.

Arsh

I not saying more power isnt good, dont get me wrong. Im sure that most power problems are due to the fact it was a bad power line on one of 12/3.3/5 due to voltage drop, or spike. Most systems will run flawless on a 300watt psu with 2 HD 2 cdroms case fans and a nice video card... maybe people are having so much problems cause of shity made PSU, Ive heard, but i havent tested that some good made ones at 300watts compare to some shitty made ones at 450watts. I didnt want to start a flame war here, im sorry.

swimtech

It is appearing from experience and research lately that quality 300W supplies are better than cheap 450W supplies. The demands of new processors and the increased desire by a larger percentage of "the masses" to run multiple drives has got to change the way computers are built - with more consideration being given to power supply selection than has been the case for years.

Unfortunately, power supplies, as you no doubt know, age. They degrade over time (just like the high voltage circuits in a TV - the design is very similar, theoretically speaking ), so a good place to start troubleshooting basically any P4 with a supply less than 300W, even in a basic system, is to consider the supply.

Seems that gt123 wants to eliminate the supply as a possible source of his problem.

HawK

You didn't? ,
well i'm sure i saw you write that a 200w would be enough? but ok, you obviously learned something...

Since you are pointing a 300w would be enough for the org. trhead starter, i don't think so!
Proc. & vid card, & drives are already taking more than 200W, but lets assume it will...
Now tell me, since you are an electrician, what powersupply on the same system would last longer ?
a 300W running on top output most of the time?
or a 450W wich runs on medium output most of the time?
and how much more power would the 450W use against the 300W

Arsh

Ok to answer your question...

I didnt learn anything. Lets just say that your computer draws 300watts at max load and 150watts at idle.. when i mean max.. is when cpu is workin at 100% and same with everything else.. like HD are spinning and copying files and asme with cdrom's all at the same time, for about 1 hour lets say, and you know i and i know that isnt going to happen very offten at all. OK... Most power supplies are over rated then what the spec says..(like a 300watt might put out 350watts or something) if its not.. then its not anny good. but to get back to the question... if the PSU is running over its rated limit for a long time.. it will be hard on it and it might burnout.... Why have all that extra power if you are not going to use it..? thats the point im trying to make.. it wont make your computer run any faster. I just dont like to see people gettin ripped off in thinking they need a 600watt PSU when they dont.


I am going to do some tests on my computers and take pictures of how much everything draws underload and idle.. i will be reading the amps on ever line going to where needs power.. like MB, CDROM, HD, FANS, 3d card... and ill post it.. I bet it will be under 250watts all together underload My comp is giga-byte GA ig 1000k P4 2.66 533fsb.. 1gig duel channel pc3200.. R9700.. 2-80g WD, and LG dvd burner.

HawK

Ok looking forward to that readout.

Crash Override

Heck you dont even need to do readouts to find out whats going on.

First of all please put the actual model number of your motherboard instead of just the GA marking.

ALL Giga-Byte boards use the GA marking scheme for the starting letters. what is the ig standing for? Integrated Graphics?

Whats the 1000k about?

Now for the rest of your system I can tell you right now that your GFX card is pulling 35-50W of power out of the system. Each HD on startup is pulling 20W

The burner when running at full speed is pulling about 20W

Your CPU is 75W (A Prescott pulls 100+)

Lets figure 1 HSF and 4 case fans. That would pull about 6W each at full speed so figure an additional 30W right there.

So far my grand tally has come up to 215 and thats still minus any sort of LED or the fans from a PSU.

Mind you those are startup loads and stress loads. Not idle system loads.

Now the other side of things is the amperage thats actually being output. Not just the wattage.

The amperage I havent measured lately on my system because Ive been mass busy doing building

However I do agree that a lower W PSU will be a good one if the voltage and amperage is good on the lines.

But, you still run into the issue of the wattage when it comes down to how much stress youre putting on the components.

When you buy a 450W PC Power and Cooling PSU, for example, you are buying a high quality PSU that will last for quite some time to come.

I was using a 300W variant of their PSU in my system with a 2500+ overclocked to 3200+. However I just couldnt get my PC2700 stick of memory to run at PC3200 no matter what I did.

I put in a higher wattage good quality power supply and poof memory will run at PC3200 without issues.


Sometimes the amps and volts just arent enough.

Arsh

this is my MB

http://www.giga-byte.com/MotherBoard...-8IG1000MK.htm


and i did a little testing but i blew the fuse in my meter (its only good for 500ma
) . I am going to use an oldschool very basic meter, the results i found so far on the 12volt line were to my liking.... the 2 HD's and the r9700 card on just the 12volt line were tested at the same time, .75amps at load and .5amps a idle, so 5 watts at idle and 9watts at load... thats just the 12volt line.. not the 5v.. stilll need to do that yet.

swimtech

Add to the considerations:

gt123's supply is right at the max (8-13 amps output, likely) for his 12v rail, which powers his drive motors, fan(s) and CPU, among other things. His CPU alone draws 6-8 amps at full load on the 12v line all by itself!

The total wattage is nice to know, but the amperage (and therefore wattage) of each rail for the individual supply must be considered.

Check this link and the chart on the last page:

http://www.thetechboard.com/tutorials/atx.php

BTW Arsh, careful your old meter has an input impedence of 10Mohms or better or you'll load the circuit and your readings will be less valid.

Arsh

Yeah swim, its watts=amps*volts...


the 12 volt line is different it can have a lower amp rating... cause the higher the volts the less amps it will draw, and the lower the voltage. the more amps it draws, so keep that in mind when u shop for a psu.

swimtech

Of course, directly proportional.

Crash Override

something is most definitely wrong with your testing method then

Modern GFX cards use 35-50W of power.

Not 5-9W

Arsh

thats just the 12 volt line.. nothing else. when i tested the 5volt line, i blew the fuse in my multi meter, so it is drawing alot more then the 12volt. im not done yet.

Crash Override

ouch now that sucks

zerodamage

Umm.. get a new power supply.

Judas

i'm powering my entire system with 350 watt psu..... i know it's enough... and it's not stressing.. but my rails start bugging out as soon as i push the cpu voltage to 1.7 (over my default barton voltage).... the factors and whatnot that they come to conclude that it's a "350 watt" psu is varient.. you could have the worst 12volt rails in the work and maybe even 3.3 volt.. but the 5 volt may be the only factor that makes the target of 350 watt.... what would be better is for a PSU calculator to determine if the device is using what rail.... calculate the in.. .and tell you what each rail should be minimum..... then give the estimated Wattage.... Wattage doesn't matter if it's not powering the things you really need to give the juice to....

swimtech

and from Judas:
Wattage doesn't matter if it's not powering the things you really need to give the juice to....


Bingo, and right on - for gt123's sake, in my opinion - he's at his limit on that 12v rail for a 250 W supply.

Sorry about your meter Arsh...