ATI r9800 pro 128 FPS what's the deal?

gt123

2.6ghz p4 800mhz fsb
512 ddr ram 400mhz
audigy 2
ATI radeon 9800 pro 128 - 4.1 cat
phoenix mobo
WinXP
monitor at 85hz, locked
all latest drivers for everything on the computer
BRAND NEW COMPUTER bought Dec 10/04 - Dell 4600i, bought with the radeon in it

i've looked on a million forums, posted on several others, and i've never found anything that has even remotely helped my FPS problem, please someone here be able to help me!

If i'm right, i've got a pretty decent computer that should be able to take full advantage of the 9800 pro right? The only game i play online is Counter-strike, and i'm not getting near the FPS i should. I constantly get dips into the 80's and 90's with just a few people on screen, and down to 70's and 60's in spawn. The rest of the time its anywhere from 120-200+fps, but rarely in the 200's. Others are getting up to 320fps constant up to 400, same sytem. I've tried everything i've seen people suggesting, AGP aparture size, mobo updates (there are not it had the latest when i bought it), windows updates, ATI driver updates, swapping files in CS, EVERYTHING - i've decided after a ton of testing over and over with different settings that its not the games causing the fps drop. I get low fps on CS and, just recently trying Tribes 2, i get lower fps than i should on that (constant 60-70 dropping to 40's with all detail settings on FULL, while other people with lesser computers and same settings getting constant 120fps up to 200).

All the settings on the card are set to quality, but like i said, people with the same settings are getting much better FPS, with equal or lesser computers. I've tried adjusting the settings in the card and games, it makes no difference. Same FPS on full performance as full quality.

What's the damn deal? am i missing something? i just don't get it, i'm sick and tired of looking for a solution to this, and i don't even have a remote idea of what the problem could be after a month and half of constant searching. But, from everything i've done, i've narrowed it down to this - Some random system configuration or setting holding it back, something IN my system not letting it perform, or its just a bad card.

I've made no changes to the computer, no overclocking or adding ram or anything - its exactly as i bought it from Dell. I've completely uninstalled the ATI drivers then installed the new cat 4.1, no improvement. NO spyware, NO programs running in the backround.

Anyone that has any idea about this, please respond...i don't want to have to hire someone to come look at my computer for money, i don't have a lot of it, but i'm running out of resources here. I'd appreciate any response at all.

Zebra

First off, have you tried any benchmarking programs like 3DMark03 or AquaMark3? Also, are you running your games in Direct3D or OpenGL? In CS,(which I take it is Counter Strike) you should have the option to use either. Older games sometimes do not tell WinXP what refresh rate to use, and you can default back to 60Hz. One way to check this would be to be in the game, and bring up your monitor's menu, there should be some where to display what the monitor's refresh rate is at during the game. If it is not at your 85Hz rate, you will need a utility to force it on.

Ev!L-aLphA

1 thing cs 1.6 is screwed up with fps.

ill pm u and try to send u a good cfg with all the bad stuff disabled.

any way make sure u dont have super high def models cuz if u got different models than thats the big problem in spwn. make sure ur refresh rate is at max ( try rrfix ).

dunno any thing else cuz i quit cs 1.6 cuz i really dislike it

by the way welcome to dh

gt123

I run Counter-Strike in OpenGL, and i already have a refresh lock program, reforce or somethin, locked at 85hz. I'm not usin any high def models that i know of, but seriously should it matter with a card this powerful? I don't think it should be dipping below 100 at all, ever. But maybe i'm just optimistic. Other people say they get around 300 fps constant, and i've seen screen shots. Evil, i don't think its CS, since i had the same drop in FPS in tribes 2, and it doesn't matter what settings i have it on in the game - even if i set my card at full performance.

And i think i will try a benchmarking deal, could you send me a link to a good one?...i've seen a lot about that AquaMark3 on different forums.

edit - OK, i tried aquamark on the default settings test with the high detail stuff, and it said

GFX 5,000
CPU 7,000
________
40,000

I forget the last few digits of the GFX and CPU....and whats the 40k mean? is this good?

Ev!L-aLphA

Just overwrite ur cfg and put this in

unbindall
bind "TAB" "+showscores"
bind "ENTER" "+attack"
bind "ESCAPE" "cancelselect"
bind "SPACE" "+jump"
bind "'" "+moveup"
bind "+" "sizeup"
bind "," "buyammo1"
bind "-" "sizedown"
bind "." "buyammo2"
bind "/" "+movedown"
bind "0" "slot10"
bind "1" "slot1"
bind "2" "slot2"
bind "3" "slot3"
bind "4" "slot4"
bind "5" "slot5"
bind "6" "slot6"
bind "7" "slot7"
bind "8" "slot8"
bind "9" "slot9"
bind ";" "+mlook"
bind "=" "podbotmenu"
bind "[" "invprev"
bind "]" "invnext"
bind "`" "toggleconsole"
bind "a" "+moveleft"
bind "b" "buy"
bind "c" "radio3"
bind "d" "+moveright"
bind "e" "+use"
bind "g" "drop"
bind "h" "+commandmenu"
bind "i" "showbriefing"
bind "j" "cheer"
bind "m" "chooseteam"
bind "n" "nightvision"
bind "o" "buyequip"
bind "q" "lastinv"
bind "r" "+reload"
bind "s" "+back"
bind "t" "impulse 201"
bind "u" "messagemode2"
bind "w" "+forward"
bind "x" "radio2"
bind "y" "messagemode"
bind "z" "radio1"
bind "~" "toggleconsole"
bind "UPARROW" "+forward"
bind "DOWNARROW" "+back"
bind "LEFTARROW" "+left"
bind "RIGHTARROW" "+right"
bind "ALT" "+strafe"
bind "CTRL" "+duck"
bind "SHIFT" "+speed"
bind "F5" "snapshot"
bind "F6" "save quick"
bind "F7" "load quick"
bind "F10" "quit prompt"
bind "INS" "+klook"
bind "PGDN" "+lookdown"
bind "PGUP" "+lookup"
bind "HOME" "togglewav"
bind "END" "centerview"
bind "MWHEELDOWN" "invnext"
bind "MWHEELUP" "invprev"
bind "MOUSE1" "+attack"
bind "MOUSE2" "+attack2"
bind "k" "+voicerecord"
bind "PAUSE" "pause"
voice_scale "1.000000"
voice_enable "1"
voice_forcemicrecord "1.000000"
console "1.0"
fps_max "100"
fps_modem "0.0"
crosshair "1.000000"
gamma "3.000000"
brightness "0.800000"
con_color "1 544 1"
net_graph "3"
net_scale "99999"
net_graphpos "2"
sv_voiceenable "1"
voice_enable "1"
voice_modenable "1"
sv_aim "0.000000"
hpk_maxsize "0"
viewsize "120.000000"
ati_subdiv "0"
ati_npatch "0"
r_bmodelhighfrac "0"
mp_decals "300"
gl_dither "0"
gl_polyoffset "0"
gl_overbright "1"
gl_flipmatrix "0"
gl_monolights "0"
s_rolloff "0"
s_doppler "0"
s_distance "0"
s_automin_distance "0"
s_automax_distance "0"
s_min_distance "0"
s_max_distance "0"
s_leafnum "0"
s_refgain "0"
s_refdelay "0"
s_polykeep "0"
s_polysize "0"
s_numpolys "0"
s_bloat "0"
s_verbwet "0"
s_a3d "0.000000"
s_eax "0.000000"
volume ".2"
suitvolume "0.000000"
hisound "1.000000"
bgmvolume "0.000000"
MP3Volume "0.800000"
_snd_mixahead "0.1"
team ""
model "gordon"
skin ""
topcolor "45"
bottomcolor "6"
rate "25000"
cl_updaterate "60"
cl_lw "1"
cl_lc "1"
cl_dlmax "256"
cl_himodels "0.000000"
cl_idealpitchscale "0"
cl_timeout "99999999999"
cl_cmdbackup "0"
cl_download_ingame "0"
cl_allowdownload "1"
cl_allowupload "1"
cl_cmdrate "6280"
lookstrafe "0.000000"
lookspring "0.000000"
cl_forwardspeed "400"
cl_backspeed "400"
cl_vsmoothing "0"
m_pitch "0.050000"
m_yaw "0.05"
m_forward "0.05"
m_side "0.05"
m_filter "0.050000"
sensitivity "4.500000"
joystick "0.000000"
hud_takesshots "0"
fastsprites "0"
cl_corpsestay "0"
_cl_autowepswitch "1"
hud_capturemouse "1"
hud_draw "1"
gl_max_size "512"
cl_righthand "1"
cl_minmodels "1"
cl_dynamiccrosshair "0"
hud_fastswitch "9999999"
hud_centerid "0"
hud_classautokill "1"
setinfo "righthand" "1"
setinfo "lefthand" "1"
+mlook
+jlook

Crash Override

Congratulations you just earned the ability to have to reinstall Windows.

You just installed Reforce when the ATi drivers already have a built in refresh utility.

To use it right click on your desktop and click on properties. Click on the Settings Tab and click on the Advanced Button.

Click on the Displays Tab and then on the Monitor Button. In that first page should be a settings called Refresh Rate Override.

Set it to Same as Desktop.

Voila all fixed.


And dont think you can follow the directions that Reforce came with to fix it by simply telling it to stop overriding.

It leaves little things behind and really screws up some games

Just reinstall Windows and use the default ATi Refresh Rate Override.

Also make sure that you are using the exact same settings as your friends.

In other words VSYNC off, Anti-Aliasing (Smoothvision) off, Anisotropic Filtering off.

Also pretty much anything higher than 40 is fast enough that your eye cant detect it so dont stress on it.

As long as the game is playing at playable framerates its just fine.

The only reason why new cards come out is for newer games.

Older games will work just fine on older cards.

Dont get a 9800 for counterstrike or other games like that.

Even a Radeon 7500 will play those well.


And to be completely honest whats holding your system back is most obvious

Its a Dell.

They are underpowered (as in the power supply not supplying enough power properly) cheaply made hunks of junk

Trust me you wouldnt want the job I have.

Most of the PC's I see with issues are either HP or Dell.

The 2 very worst system makers known to man


PS. You do realize their tech support is farmed out to Bangledesh and Kuala Lampur where the techs dont even have computers, just books, right?


edit - Didnt use enough smilies to show that Im in a jokey mood and not a bad one

gt123

Thanks for the information, and if its my Dell that's making it crap, that's total BS. If it is my power supply or whatever you said, is there any way to boost that or make it better? i mean, just short of getting a completely new computer, could i just have this one modified or something? I really don't know crap about computers, and i got a dell because it was cheaper than a gateway with the exact same specs, i guess i know why now...

But one thing - i didn't get a 9800 pro with this computer to play CS. I got it to hold up with all the future games. I'm not worried about playing CS with good framerates, they're already good, i could never tell a difference without the FPS counter. My point was that the FPS should be BETTER. Its not the gameplay, its the amount of money i spent on the card for this kind of performance, and i wanted to figure out why.

Dell is partners with ATI right now, and they are endorsing their cards in Dell computers, so i don't see why the hell they wouldn't want to make them run as well as possible on their computers.

And no, i didn't know the Dell support was in Bangledesh. Award winning Bangledesh support? yeah.

Anyways, if you could answer my first question, if there's anything i can do about the power output, i'd appreciate it. That, and if OCing the card would give me a little better score...i looked on the AquaMark3 bench forums and it said people with my system could be hitting around the 50k mark. I wanna know how to get close. Plus, about reinstalling windows...why? I haven't seen any increase or decrease in performance since i installed reforce.

Zebra

There is nothing wrong with a score in the 40K area on Aquamark3, but, it is not using OpenGL. It's using DirectX.

Ev!L-aLphA

What power supply u got? u need atleast a 300w power supply for ur radeon 9800

gt123

Yeah, i think thats about the last thing it could be. i've got 250W - something like 100-160 at 60hz and 200-240 at 50 hz. don't know which one i have...but i checked the AquaMark forums again and people with my exact same system and cards w/out overclocks were getting 44k. So, i'm just gonna get a new power supply and tweak windows, hopefully that'll help.

Thanks for all your help, i think i'm gonna post here first next time i've got a problem...found a solution in 2 days, steam took a month and nothing.

I'll post back in awhile after i do everything

Crash Override

Thats why I was saying Dells are horrid

I was wrong btw

Their tech support is farmed out of Bombay.

I thought it was Bangledesh for some reason.


But yeah the thing that Dell is infamous for is shoddy power supplies and proprietary connectors which means the only way you can get a power supply is to buy one that had their special type of connector.

Find out which type of connector yours has because some models will use standard ATX and others require special PSUs like I just said.

If you require a special PSU dont get one from Dell.

Order from http://www.pcpowerandcooling.com

BiGBrOwNPimpsta

hey hey! dont be dissin my brethren yo LOL

there some bengali/indian people on the forum here "coughs" haha

gt123: try these commands command.

developer 1
r_mmx 1
fps_max 4000 (or any high number this command works in any version but in 1.5 and below it will only reach 100fps tops)

gt123

Alright thanks crash, i'll look into that...do you know any places with pretty good deals besides that link you gave me?

And pimpsta, i know, tried it all. Its not the game.

Crash Override

Trust me Im not dissing them at all

Im dissing Dell for pushing out tech support to another country without training the people who are going to be manning the phones.

There is something to be said for companies that put you through to techs from the very beginning


gt123 that one link I gave you is pretty much the only company I know of that handles making PSUs that are compatible with Dells.

Are you not in the US? Because I think they handle all of US and Canada

also I just checked and it looks like your model does use standard ATX so you should be able to buy any PSU, but I would recommend not getting an antec if possible but do get a good brand.

Never go for bargain power supplies. Way more trouble than they are worth.

Ev!L-aLphA

yo will the 2400 model work with any power supply cuz my friend has been having this problem for along time now with his damn 250w power supply he just foudn out tonight so i told him im pretty sure its that
so can u please find out if the 2400 model can carry any power supply befor he goes and buys one.

thanks

gt123

Thanks crash, you said not to get an antec, but get a good one...any recommendations? i'm not rich or anything, so i'm just looking for a pretty good one for a reasonable price, not over 100 if possible...anywhere in the 400-550W range, or whatever you think would be good for my comp. I want it to run as well as possible, but i don't want to spend any extra money if its just going to be overkill.

And yes, i'm in the US

BiGBrOwNPimpsta

enermax is good i hear

gt123

OK...crash, i used the system restore thing to see if it would fix the reforce problem, wouldn't that work too? I don't want to reinstall windows if i don't have to. I can't tell if it fixed it or not since i could never see anything wrong in the first place, but does the system restore fix it?

Crash Override

just tell him to not go cheap and to get at least a 400W PSU

He should be spending around 85 bux or so if hes getting a really good PSU

Look for names like Enermax, Raidmax, Thermaltake, PC Power and Cooling (always top of my list)

Crash Override

In that cause I would suggest grabbing this PSU

http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProduc...=BROWSE&depa=1


Its a slightly better edition of the one we have upstairs and works rather nicely

With reforce its really hard to tell

It depends on the first time you used reforce versus when the restore point you went back to was

You dont have to reinstall XP if you dont want to

However I do tend to recommend it with any utility like that.

One way to get it to reset is just to run ReForce again but tell it to set all to default

But I know people who have had lots of game issues even after attempting fixes.

Judas

er... no ... need a bit more then that for his rig.... 400 watt min....

gt123

Yeah Crash actually i did a lot of research since my last post here, and that's the exact PSU i was planning on buying, from that site. But there's a lot more of the same model on there that cost different prices...what's the difference? seems like the ones with higher W00** numbers cost more, what is that?and it says "retail" on some of them that cost a lot more...whats that mean too?

Sorry for all the questions, but i need to get the best deal here, i'm short on cash

Crash Override

trust me that PSU is a great deal and I have no reason to lie since Im not making any money off of it

If you check the specs out they are actually a little bit different from each other even if they provide the same wattage

The one listed below has extra items that come with it if you look at the picture gallery