Crossfire: As i see it (Debateable)

Judas · Jun 6, 2006, 07:26 PM

i just think it sucks that crossfire causes problems with HDR + FSAA in a pile of games..... if HDR is enabled.. FSAA is forced off.... why?

ChOnG · Jun 7, 2006, 07:27 AM

Skinner. i had alot of those problems. scanlines,missing options etc. buying a lcd has eliminated all of them lol now that is weird

Skinner · Jun 7, 2006, 08:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChOnG

Skinner. i had alot of those problems. scanlines,missing options etc. buying a lcd has eliminated all of them lol now that is weird

I've heard this, but no way I'm gonna put my Sony F520 Crt away, it's IQ is way too beautifull

I'm gonna try some other soloutions ie change the pixel clock from the RAMDAC
And I have read a possible solution for Condemend too.

SirPauly · Jun 7, 2006, 12:01 PM

I played FarCry HDR+AA, Serious Sam2 HDR+AA, Oblivion HDR+AA with CrossFire. The only HDR that matters is Oblivion -- well done! -- Far Cry and Serious Sam2 I use x10 AA -- don't care for the HDR in those titles.

Judas · Jun 7, 2006, 02:20 PM

And HDR + FSAA work in serious sam (as thats the only game that i have that you have as well).. within crossfire mode?

The moment i turn HDR on when FSAA is already applied (2-4-through to-14x) which will be working, HDR turned on instantly disables all FSAA being applied.

SirPauly · Jun 7, 2006, 03:17 PM

I believe HDR+AA only works with x2 and x4 AA right now. You must use the in-game AA (low, medium, high). Setting it to medium or high will give you x4 HDR AA. Make sure you set CCC to application.

Here are some benches with SS2 using the Branchester Demo:

1600 x 1200 - x16 HQ filtering:

HDR: 104.5 CrossFire
HDR: 64.9 Single X1900XT

HDR X2AA: 87.4 CrossFire
HDR x2AA: 48.7 Single X1900XT

HDR x4AA: 74.6 CrossFire
HDR x4AA: 40.5 Single X1900XT

I love x10 AA because it gives me a virtually free hit x2 rotated grid super-sampled:

X8 AA: 71 CrossFire Super-AA
x10AA: 72.8 CrossFire Super-AA
x4 AA: 70.6 Single X1900XT

Judas · Jun 7, 2006, 07:00 PM

Nope doesn't work..

High never works... SS2 will not allow me to set FSAA to high

However, setting CCC to application and then setting FSAA in game still works.. but when i enabled HDR... FSAA will remain at medium and still not work.

ATI has already said they are aware of this issue and to wait for new driver. (again)

SirPauly · Jun 7, 2006, 08:25 PM

Here is x4 HDR+AA in SS2. Frame-rate is on bottom left!

[color=#5e8698]http://img77.imageshack.us/img77/974/sam2hdr4aa7dk.jpg[/color]

Here is HDR in SS2. Frame-rate is on bottom left!

http://img77.imageshack.us/img77/4684/sam2hdr7ji.jpg

Minor edit sorry!

SirPauly · Jun 8, 2006, 11:21 AM

SS2 shot of x4 HDR+AA+performance adaptive AA:

http://img342.imageshack.us/img342/3...ormance4zp.jpg

Judas · Jun 8, 2006, 12:53 PM

Look here:

Several Shots of Crossfire mode with 14x FSAA forced on via CCC and in Serious Sam 2 and l2.. you can clearly see FSAA is not working, This happens at EVERY lvl of FSAA setting applied in the CCC or set to application and set via the game itself.. or both...

FSAA will NOT work for me at all.

2048x1536 on crossfire x1900 (14xAA/16xAF)

SirPauly · Jun 8, 2006, 01:55 PM

If HDR is enabled in the in-game menu of Serious Sam2 -- x14 Super-AA will not work and no level of AA is applied. For x14 Super-AA to work.......you must make sure HDR is disabled in the in-game menu.

Every single mode of AA works here - except for x6 HDR-AA! Every single time! I don't know what else to tell you.

MiDri · Jun 8, 2006, 02:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SirPauly

If HDR is enabled in the in-game menu of Serious Sam2 -- x14 Super-AA will not work and no level of AA is applied. For x14 Super-AA to work.......you must make sure HDR is disabled in the in-game menu.

Every single mode of AA works here - except for x6 HDR-AA! Every single time! I don't know what else to tell you.

If you do driver based AA, you should be able to use bother HDR and AA with R5XX/R6XX cards.

Judas · Jun 8, 2006, 02:37 PM

like i've said... those above images are identical if not the same if i were to allow the game to apply low/mid (high doesn't work... just reverts to med the minute i hit apply).... or using 2x/4x/6x/8x/10x/12x/14x in the CCC with or without adaptive AA being turned on With it being performance or quality or, with or without Temporal AA being turned off or on...

It just plainly don't work.... period.

This applies to every single HDR based game i've tried loading up.. SS2/Lineage2.

Hell even ATI's Assassin demo seems to mess up. Frigen bugger crashes and spits out a txt that is very helpful

"Bad thing" ...

rotfl. when i saw that.... i thought that was an excellent error report.

SirPauly · Jun 8, 2006, 03:11 PM

Sorry to hear it!

Here is FarCry with HDR+x4AA!

http://img275.imageshack.us/img275/8...yx4hdrr4bx.jpg

Judas · Jun 8, 2006, 05:13 PM

not sure about that.... that there images looks like it has a far bit of jaggies...

due to the resolution.. though.... it'll make it a little hardware.. but that image there definitely has some aliasing....

SirPauly · Jun 9, 2006, 12:47 PM

Well, let's cure this doubt - shall we!

HDR -- no AA:

http://img287.imageshack.us/img287/9...ossfire5qu.jpg

HDR -- x4 AA -- one X1900:

http://img459.imageshack.us/img459/4...aa1card9qu.jpg

HDR--x4 AA -- CrossFire:

http://img145.imageshack.us/img145/2...ossfire2qh.jpg

1600 x 1200 -- noHDR -- CrossFire:

http://img145.imageshack.us/img145/3...ossfire7jl.jpg

Judas · Jun 9, 2006, 01:17 PM

mkay looks good...

now if only my crossfire worked...

not to mention several other peoples that don't work either

~~hackerx~~ · Jun 9, 2006, 11:08 PM

did u update ur bios to the latest version(i'mtalking about the motherboard)?The ASUS A8R32-MVP had some(or a lot of)bugs in its first bios,maybe thats why crossfire isn't working.
Get the latest bios and try again.

kingsownall · Jun 9, 2006, 11:55 PM

i bet on that he tried it

Judas · Jun 10, 2006, 12:11 AM

404 bios...

yes everything is maxed out up to date.

however, atm i have my mastercard in the bottom slot.. cause in the top it just don't work.. crossfire is working... but no all programs are supported in crossfire mode.. and by default.. they'll only run on one card..

that's the problem with crossfire..... it's a pos when it isn't specifically got support for various progs/games.

one thing i'm finding annoying is the occasional Checkeredboard effect that happens if a D3D game closes... and i load up anothing... a reset of the gamma fixes it.. it's like one board is displaying a gamma value different then the other.. (light/dark squares)

twistedpain183 · Jun 10, 2006, 03:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skinner

See my posting on b3d:

http://www.beyond3d.com/forum/showthread.php?t=31010

Some games have improved CF performance since cat. 6.5, like Oblivion (chuckpatch, Tomraider Legend) but there are many issues left.

-Scanlines on my crt screen

missing options..
-Screencurroption in Condemned after autosaving

;
-Hitman BM not running in CF mode

-GTA SA flickering or chequerboards

-Bad performance in FEAR

-overdrive only accessing the mastercard

The good, unparralled perfmance and IQ when operating properly.
I won't give it up quickly as it has a lot of potential.

since i got my x1800 the screen issues in condemmed stopped happening. gta runs better and fear runs alot smoother than it did while i had it crossfired and one more thing about the dongle nvidia had it right by placing it inside the case connected to the sides of the cards. why couldnt ATi develop a similar method with the back that didnt require a large bulky cable that always mafunctioned?

SirPauly · Jun 10, 2006, 10:29 AM

Can only speak for myself, only had a few minor bugs with CrossFire in a handful of titles. Without the Dongle and improved composite chip, Super-AA performance would be pretty much useless in my mind and more in line with Sli-AA.

Also, when taking screenshots of Super-AA, well, there is no way of capturing it because it is being blended by the composite chip, imho. If you think you're taking screenshots of x14 AA ( which is x12 multi-sampling and x2 super-sampling,) well, you're actually taking a screenshot of x6 multi-sampling.

If someone knows how to take Super-AA shots -- it would be appreciated. I would love to show how nice the x2 rotated-grid super-sampled handles specular artifacts. Edit: And to see the quality of the added polygon edge samples.

Judas · Jun 10, 2006, 03:40 PM

easy.... find a method in which you can connect the dvi into another machine that can capture it..

Final8y · Jun 10, 2006, 03:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SirPauly

Can only speak for myself, only had a few minor bugs with CrossFire in a handful of titles. Without the Dongle and improved composite chip, Super-AA performance would be pretty much useless in my mind and more in line with Sli-AA.

Also, when taking screenshots of Super-AA, well, there is no way of capturing it because it is being blended by the composite chip, imho. If you think you're taking screenshots of x14 AA ( which is x12 multi-sampling and x2 super-sampling,) well, you're actually taking a screenshot of x6 multi-sampling.

If someone knows how to take Super-AA shots -- it would be appreciated. I would love to show how nice the x2 rotated-grid super-sampled handles specular artifacts. Edit: And to see the quality of the added polygon edge samples.

I also have had very little issues with crossfire, and overall im pleased.
But i haved noticed that too many but not all the ppl that are having problems are useing 3rd plarty drivers & control centers.

I have tried other drivers & control centers and found there to be many problem with them with giveing lower FPS ect.. also driver cleaner will not uninstall these & useing windows remove does not get rid of everything then installing cat & drivers again would not put things right as if i had used the cat & drivers in the first place like the auto fan control not working like it used to with the cats untill i did a manual hunt for left over bits from the 3rd party stuff & deled them & did a DC & cat&dr reinstall.
One guy on another forum even killed his new 1900xtx because he had set the fan control at a fixed low speed by mistake with a 3rd party app but got lucky and got the card replaced as if the fan was at fault in the first place. ppl should use the standard SW for awhile with new HW before useing 3rd party as its easyer to track down faults.

Judas · Jun 10, 2006, 04:02 PM

I don't run 3rd party software .....

~~hackerx~~ · Jun 10, 2006, 11:06 PM

hey judas,have u tried the omega drivers.Maybe they'll help out with ur crossfire issues.

Judas · Jun 11, 2006, 04:22 PM

as far as i understand.... you must use the CCC control panel.. and as i see it, it's majority of the issue...

i haven't used any other driver other then official for at least a year and a half. or 2.

BWX · Jun 11, 2006, 06:00 PM

I will never use a dual card solution.. even if I had plenty of money to spend on it. Just wait six months and but the next fastest single card and saver 600 bucks a year.

Judas · Jun 11, 2006, 06:06 PM

yeah... but i wanted to see how it looked/performed/and ran..

BWX · Jun 11, 2006, 08:16 PM

Yeah... I have a feeling if I ever spent that much and there were bugs I would be pretty pissed.. even though it is to be expected.

I wonder how those specific problems work in SLI?

Jun 7, 2006, 03:17 PM	#36
SirPauly DriverHeaven Junior Member Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 52 Rep Power: 0	I believe HDR+AA only works with x2 and x4 AA right now. You must use the in-game AA (low, medium, high). Setting it to medium or high will give you x4 HDR AA. Make sure you set CCC to application. Here are some benches with SS2 using the Branchester Demo: 1600 x 1200 - x16 HQ filtering: HDR: 104.5 CrossFire HDR: 64.9 Single X1900XT HDR X2AA: 87.4 CrossFire HDR x2AA: 48.7 Single X1900XT HDR x4AA: 74.6 CrossFire HDR x4AA: 40.5 Single X1900XT I love x10 AA because it gives me a virtually free hit x2 rotated grid super-sampled: X8 AA: 71 CrossFire Super-AA x10AA: 72.8 CrossFire Super-AA x4 AA: 70.6 Single X1900XT Last edited by SirPauly; Jun 7, 2006 at 03:27 PM.

Jun 9, 2006, 11:55 PM	#49
kingsownall DriverHeaven Junior Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 50 Rep Power: 0	i bet on that he tried it __________________ [color=Lime][color=Red]ComSpecs asus p4rvm 2.8GHZ Northwood corsair value select pc-3200 [/color][color=Red]Ati Radeon X850pro(540,610 on zalman fata1lty)[/color] [/color]

Jun 10, 2006, 10:29 AM	#52
SirPauly DriverHeaven Junior Member Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 52 Rep Power: 0	Can only speak for myself, only had a few minor bugs with CrossFire in a handful of titles. Without the Dongle and improved composite chip, Super-AA performance would be pretty much useless in my mind and more in line with Sli-AA. Also, when taking screenshots of Super-AA, well, there is no way of capturing it because it is being blended by the composite chip, imho. If you think you're taking screenshots of x14 AA ( which is x12 multi-sampling and x2 super-sampling,) well, you're actually taking a screenshot of x6 multi-sampling. If someone knows how to take Super-AA shots -- it would be appreciated. I would love to show how nice the x2 rotated-grid super-sampled handles specular artifacts. Edit: And to see the quality of the added polygon edge samples. Last edited by SirPauly; Jun 10, 2006 at 10:36 AM.

Jun 11, 2006, 06:00 PM	#58
BWX Spinal Tapped Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: USNY Posts: 19,573 Rep Power: 92 System Specs	I will never use a dual card solution.. even if I had plenty of money to spend on it. Just wait six months and but the next fastest single card and saver 600 bucks a year. __________________ One Big Ass Mistake America

Jun 11, 2006, 08:16 PM	#60
BWX Spinal Tapped Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: USNY Posts: 19,573 Rep Power: 92 System Specs	Yeah... I have a feeling if I ever spent that much and there were bugs I would be pretty pissed.. even though it is to be expected. I wonder how those specific problems work in SLI? __________________ One Big Ass Mistake America

Jun 7, 2006, 07:27 AM	#32
ChOnG DriverHeaven Junior Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 29 Rep Power: 0	Skinner. i had alot of those problems. scanlines,missing options etc. buying a lcd has eliminated all of them lol now that is weird

Jun 7, 2006, 12:01 PM	#34
SirPauly DriverHeaven Junior Member Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 52 Rep Power: 0	I played FarCry HDR+AA, Serious Sam2 HDR+AA, Oblivion HDR+AA with CrossFire. The only HDR that matters is Oblivion -- well done! -- Far Cry and Serious Sam2 I use x10 AA -- don't care for the HDR in those titles.

Jun 7, 2006, 08:25 PM	#38
SirPauly DriverHeaven Junior Member Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 52 Rep Power: 0	Here is x4 HDR+AA in SS2. Frame-rate is on bottom left! [color=#5e8698]http://img77.imageshack.us/img77/974/sam2hdr4aa7dk.jpg[/color] Here is HDR in SS2. Frame-rate is on bottom left! http://img77.imageshack.us/img77/4684/sam2hdr7ji.jpg Minor edit sorry!

Jun 8, 2006, 11:21 AM	#39
SirPauly DriverHeaven Junior Member Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 52 Rep Power: 0	SS2 shot of x4 HDR+AA+performance adaptive AA: http://img342.imageshack.us/img342/3...ormance4zp.jpg

Jun 8, 2006, 01:55 PM	#41
SirPauly DriverHeaven Junior Member Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 52 Rep Power: 0	If HDR is enabled in the in-game menu of Serious Sam2 -- x14 Super-AA will not work and no level of AA is applied. For x14 Super-AA to work.......you must make sure HDR is disabled in the in-game menu. Every single mode of AA works here - except for x6 HDR-AA! Every single time! I don't know what else to tell you.

Jun 8, 2006, 03:11 PM	#44
SirPauly DriverHeaven Junior Member Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 52 Rep Power: 0	Sorry to hear it! Here is FarCry with HDR+x4AA! http://img275.imageshack.us/img275/8...yx4hdrr4bx.jpg

Jun 9, 2006, 12:47 PM	#46
SirPauly DriverHeaven Junior Member Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 52 Rep Power: 0	Well, let's cure this doubt - shall we! HDR -- no AA: http://img287.imageshack.us/img287/9...ossfire5qu.jpg HDR -- x4 AA -- one X1900: http://img459.imageshack.us/img459/4...aa1card9qu.jpg HDR--x4 AA -- CrossFire: http://img145.imageshack.us/img145/2...ossfire2qh.jpg 1600 x 1200 -- noHDR -- CrossFire: http://img145.imageshack.us/img145/3...ossfire7jl.jpg

Jun 9, 2006, 11:08 PM	#48
~~hackerx~~ Banned Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 495 Rep Power: 0	did u update ur bios to the latest version(i'mtalking about the motherboard)?The ASUS A8R32-MVP had some(or a lot of)bugs in its first bios,maybe thats why crossfire isn't working. Get the latest bios and try again.

Jun 10, 2006, 11:06 PM	#56
~~hackerx~~ Banned Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 495 Rep Power: 0	hey judas,have u tried the omega drivers.Maybe they'll help out with ur crossfire issues.