About latency

GuitarPlayer

Hi audio fanatics

I'm a bit frustrated bout the fact that U guys can get a low latency like 2 ms and use the card without any noise (HISS)
Been using KX for quite some time now and I can only manage 10 ms.
What I mostly use is:

- Steinberg Cubase SX 2 (latest build)
- FXPansion BFD drum module (latest build)
- Native Instruments Guitar Rig (latest build)
- Spectrasonics Trilogy (latest build)
- Then maybe some extra plugins for effects or a VSTi synth
- My Fender California Stratocaster (build 1997

I can do 5ms with SX2 , Guitar Rig & another VSTi but a soon as BFD comes in I get Pops, when I go up to 10 ms all good tho.
Now there isn't really a bad delay in 10ms but 5ms seems a bit more responsive (for guitar)
My system is fully optimized meaning all the tweaks are done to OS and Hardware (BIOS)
Now these SB live 5.1 can't prob perform any better, it's already amazing I'm running these at 5 ms with KX, but I'm still wondering if I could do any better
Also the Noise (HISS) is very disturbing, I have no idea where to look for that issue. Friends told me its probably the SNR of the card wich is bout 80db rite?
I can bare the 10 ms latency but not the HISS in the background
If someone can help me with this issue or simply tell me that this card cant perform any better that would be great
Now my system Spec:

- Gigabyte motherboard (VIA chipset, FSB @ 138)
- 1 gig DDR Ram (pc 2700)
- Athlon XP +2400
- SB Live 5.1
- Geforce 3 ti/500
- WD 80 gig (7200 rpm)
- Plextor 52/24/52A
- Old compaq DVD
- Win XP SP1 with DirectX 9c
- KX latest build
- My guitar is Directly Plugged into Line-In with a 1,5m cable (unballanced I think)

Ok I've made 3 examples of what I'm hearing

1. This is the HISS I'm hearing when my guitar is not even plugged in, so nothing inserted into line-in or Mic, only SX2 monitoring sound with Guitar Rig loaded
http://users.pandora.be/wimsguitarsi...20Inserted.mp3

2. Guitar Rig with my guitar plugged in n played
http://users.pandora.be/wimsguitarsi...z%20Preset.mp3

3. No plugins loaded, SX2 monitoring sound (track volume at max)
http://users.pandora.be/wimsguitarsi...%20Plugins.mp3

Hope that helps


Thx for the help amigos

GuitarPlayer

Forgot to mention this

When I unplug my guitar (nothing inserted into Line-in or Mic) I stil get that hiss sound from guitar rig or any other amp sim software
And no it isnt a distortion type of sound, just a clean jazz preset
When I then mute the AC97 the hiss is gone so it must be AC97 codec related rite?

laters,

dj_stick

check to see if the cable is damaged

GuitarPlayer

Nah it isn't cable mate since I still get the hiss when nothing is inserted into Line-in or Mic

question, Is the Audigy 2 ZS much better at SNR then this SB Live 5.1
I can grab one of those for a very cheap price but if I still get the hiss it's not worth it. Think I've read somewhere that Audigy 2 ZS should have 108 db SNR.

More info

Sound Blaster 24-bit ADVANCED HD audio performance at 106dB SNR in the Sound Blaster Audigy 2 delivers up to eight times better clarity than host audio. The new Audigy 2 chip, premium quality 24-bit/192kHz Digital to Analog Converters (DACs), and a true 24-bit ADVANCED HD™ audio path ensure "hiss-free" audio fidelity and exceptional clarity of 106dB SNR.

Does that "true 24-bit ADVANCED HD™ audio path ensure "hiss-free" audio fidelity" has something to do with it?

peate

Then it must be your guitar rig, or a damaged input. I've got a Live 5.1 and haven't noticed any hiss from Ac97, be it from Mic or Line, they both seem pretty quiet. However, I use N-track, never tried Cubase or the other stuff you mentioned.

Try loading your gear one at a time and see when the hiss starts.

Pierre

GuitarPlayer

Loading Amplitube into spinaudio's ASIO FX processor (standalone VST host) gives me same hiss
The hiss starts from the moment AC97 is turned on and monitoring with an amp sim
I dont get it that bad with no vst plugin loaded (clean sound) but thats only because the signal is 2 low
I tried other hosts in the past but same problem.
So U have no hiss whatsoever with ur guitar plugged in?
Can I ask what gear U use and how the guitar is plugged in?

thx

peate

I don't do any MIDI, maybe the odd soundfont bass recorded as wave. I use Line 2 for my guitar cause I have a live drive, and a few plug-ins. See the thread example DSP set-ups.

Example DSP Setups

Ac97 I use for mic. or accoustic guitar with just a touch of reverb. I don't have an adaptor to try my Mexican Strat in AC97 so I'm an unfair judge, lol. I'll try to get one and see.

My PC is a home made Pentium IV at 2ghz, 512 ram, Gigabyte mother board, Radeon 9200VIVO, SB Live Platinum 5.1, Cambridge Soundworks DTT2200 speakers. Nothing special, but it works flawlessly using either Asio or Wmd drivers. Latency is not a big deal for me cause my needs are pretty basic compared to yours. Oh yeah I use Win 2k Sp4.

Pierre

peate

I did a little test, using the stereo mic, placed as far away from the pc as possible, monitor off, headphones only. All lights in the room off, no appliances running. I turned up the volume as loud as it goes. I could hear the pc fan still, and my own breathing, (just kidding), but it was picking up plenty. I never heard anything like your sample mp3. That sounded like the outdoors at night in the country. Ur picking up something from somewhere. It's not really noticeable with the guitar playing tho.

Sometimes, things like fluorescent lamps or older TV's give off strange frequencies.

Nice intro btw.

Pierre

GuitarPlayer

hehe thx for speedy replies amigos

There's nothing else here besides my PC
Got a pretty huge fan on my CPU and my GF 3 Ti/500 also holds a small fan (dunno if that has anything to do with it)
The power supply practicaly chokes my cpu cooling (blocking it) so I def need to get a bigger case (cpu temps around 60 - 70 when hot weather)
I also get the monitor hum but thats cleaned out with moving my guitar away from monitor or just turning off the monitor
This issue is making me
Hopefully this hiss will be cleared out "when" I buy me a new card

Anywayz, I'm off again for testing

TravelRec.

Hi!

I think, the background noise is coming from your line in (AC97), what is your card model??? It´s possible to lift up guitar´s level and lower the line in volume to get a better S/N ratio. Complete desription here: Cheap and easy to make LowNoise Guitar PreAmp

Finally be sure you only record AC97 line, not stereo mix.

Greetings!

TravelRec.

GuitarPlayer

Hi TravelRec,

I'm thinking same m8, that's why I'm prob gonna buy another card, that budget card EMU 0404 seems nice.
What card, lets see, I know I got a SB Live 5.1 (Digital) but I have to check the card itself rite? (CT thingy?)
About that lifting guitar level, I'll pass
What I don't understand tho is "Finally be sure you only record AC97 line, not stereo mix."
What U mean by that mate?

Thx for info TravelRec

Laterz

Tiger M

you'll miss a lot if you "pass" on that

check this out in the ac97 tab in the kxmixer

GuitarPlayer

AC97 => line in

bout that lift level line-in thingy, If I'm gonna try that I can surely buy me another soundcard lol

TravelRec.

No, don´t care - it´s an outside-standalone project, no card modding. The only things you could damage are your fingers . BTW: the EMU0404 seems not to be kX-compatible, so you´ll miss many features (except the low noise input)! Better you get a used Audigy or Audigy2. If you are a really hard guy you also could build an external converter unit to get real low noise. Look in general forum : Analogue to SPDIF ... thread.

Greetings!

TravelRec.

GuitarPlayer

Well amigo

If U or any other person can guarantee me that the Audigy 2 ZS will have a much better SNR (no noise) and latency (2 - 5 ms) I might grab me one of those and keep using the KX drivers
I can live with the 48khz convertion

Really wondering how this card performs since they state 108db SNR and 24bit/192khz quality

Tiger M

Well amigo, no one can guarantee you anything, because no one here makes the cards.
You will get better S/N ratio, but if you still plug the guitar directly into line-in and amplify the signal digitally you won't get much improvement. You need to get a good pre-amp for best quality recording and you can get that quality on a SB Live!, but only if you have a pre-amp...

Latency depends on your PC configuration and if you don't get 2.66ms with yours (it's a good one) then nothing will help you.

GuitarPlayer

hehe ok hombre

Well, I used a preamp before, the ZOOM 505 MultiFX box and the noise was even worse, alot worse.
I'm using the fader gain atm to boost the volume, the noise obviously get worse with sliding it up. U play guitar thru this card? I wanna know if guitarists really use this card (Line-in not mic) for quality (not top notch) recordings

I'm waiting for ur reply

Tiger M

ha-ha

I use it primarily for guitar recording with TravelRec.'s pre-amp only and I don't actually need more than that for a high quality sound. Btw, I have a ZOOM 505 II myself and don't forget it's digitall too, so you're basically doing the same thing - even worse, because the zoom dsp has a 31Khz sampling frequency.

Again, listen to my words - you nead an analog pre-amp. TravelRec's preamps cost me about 10 euro and two hours work each.