dancing.sphinx

Which version should use for Live 5.1 (SB100) for best ASIO results? I mean latency, but stability also and issue, of course. I have a single-core cpu (w/o HT), so there'll be no problems with that. I heard that 3534f is the best - where I can get it? Or maybe latest 3539 preferable?

TravelRec.

__________________
ASUS P4P800-VM P4HT 3.0GHz@800Mhz FSB, 1GB 400Mhz DDR DualChannel, Audigy2ZS with 2 optical SPDIF in, 3 optical SPDIF out, 8 analog mono in, 8 analog out // ASRock P4i65G P4HT 2.4GHz@800Mhz FSB, 1GB DDR DualChannel, Audigy SB0090 with 4 SPDIF in + 4 SPDIF out // Dell OptiPlex GX1+ PIII @ 600 MHz, 384 MB SDRAM, CT4670 with 2 SPDIF in + 2 SPDIF out // Toshiba Libretto 100CT, Audigy2ZSNB SB0530 // MSI MS-6151 PIII @ 450 MHz 384 MB SDRAM, CT 4790 PCI 512 // ATARI 1040 STE, 8Mhz, 4MB RAM, SM124 // ATARI 130XE, XF551, SIO <-> PC interface

dancing.sphinx

ok, thank you! But should I use 3534f or latest 3539? Please, answer me!

And btw last question - I use my Live 5.1 only for midi recording and NOT audio. Should I set 44100 kX ASIO instead of 48000? All my VSTs natively have 44100 samples (BFD, NI Bandstad, etc.) and I suppose that final rendering of recorded midi data will be better in 44100/32 rather than 48000/32. A 44->48 Quality issues during instrument playing (monitoring) is not so critical for me, more important to obtain the best results during final wav rendering. So, once again - i do not use my card for audio input, the only input is midi. In this situation are there still any bad things in 44100 mode? Maybe ASIO in kX much slower in 44100 or buggy? I don't know all the details...

TravelRec.

3534f gives best ASIO performance on Live! cards, 3539 gives you the most features and new plugins, but ASIO runs not as well as 3534f.

For your question: it is the best to set your templates to 48000 Hz, since this is the native clock of the card and you will get the best performance.

__________________
ASUS P4P800-VM P4HT 3.0GHz@800Mhz FSB, 1GB 400Mhz DDR DualChannel, Audigy2ZS with 2 optical SPDIF in, 3 optical SPDIF out, 8 analog mono in, 8 analog out // ASRock P4i65G P4HT 2.4GHz@800Mhz FSB, 1GB DDR DualChannel, Audigy SB0090 with 4 SPDIF in + 4 SPDIF out // Dell OptiPlex GX1+ PIII @ 600 MHz, 384 MB SDRAM, CT4670 with 2 SPDIF in + 2 SPDIF out // Toshiba Libretto 100CT, Audigy2ZSNB SB0530 // MSI MS-6151 PIII @ 450 MHz 384 MB SDRAM, CT 4790 PCI 512 // ATARI 1040 STE, 8Mhz, 4MB RAM, SM124 // ATARI 130XE, XF551, SIO <-> PC interface

dancing.sphinx

So 48000 ASIO is faster than 44100, anyway? afair, all 44100->48000 done by software slows down speed, while using hardware SRC in emu10k doesnt. I can't manually resample 44100 samples, because it may confuse VST-plugins I use (BFD, Bandstand, etc), and needles to say it's a very big job (there are thousands wav's, and many of them n-channeled). So from THAT point of view, is 48000 ASIO still preferred in terms of speed?


btw, 3534f has 44100 ASIO?

Russ

Personally (unless you are using Win98SE/ME), I would probably say to use 3538m (until the mixer bug in 3539 is fixed), since it offers support for more models (i.e. 3534f may not fully support your card (I do not know specifically which models were supported in all the different versions, so I cannot say for sure)), etc. However, I would suggest that you just try both (kX install/uninstall is pretty simple) and see what works better for you (or which one you like better), as some applications seem to work better with different kX versions (so it is hard to give a definitive answer).

As for ASIO, in your case, I would probably say to just use 44100 (if 48000 is a problem for your VST's), but realize that you will not have any ASIO inputs at 44100, and that it will be re-sampled to 48000 in the DSP (but... it is easy enough to switch between 44100/48000, so again, give both a try and see which works better for you).

dancing.sphinx

Thanks!

Slippers

HoWdY!!

Could you expand a little more on this "bug" please.
This is the first I've heard of it.
Thankx

Russ

It is mentioned in the 3539 bug reports thread (it is an issue with the mixer names). It is nothing major (it mostly effects MM keyboard functionality). I only said 3538m since there is not much changes between 3538m and 3539 (unless your are using Vista, or a2zsnb), but the bug can be annoying for some people, and it could be a problem with some programs (although I do not know of anything specific).

dancing.sphinx

bug in 3539 - midi volume resets after each song, until you manually slide it again on the mixer tab. The slide remains on the place but, but the volume of each midi song (opened by F3 in total commander) starts from 100%, and the slide fools you. I'm using headphones and i've noticed how loud midis always starts, even after i reduced it's vol to <10%. it's simply doesn't work until you reduce it again. Sorry for posting here - I dont know where to post about it.

Russ

Bug reports go in the "Bug Reports" forum.

As for the bug, yeah, it seems that just opening the MIDI port for either of the kX Synth's causes the Synth volume to be set at 100%.

dancing.sphinx

Oh, I've finally understood how to ask question that bothers me: which route of re-sample sequence using kX ASIO happens:

VST (MIDI to 44100) -> Sonar (volume, mixing, etc. 44100) -> emu10K DSP (48000) -> Analog Out

or

VST (MIDI to 44100) -> emu10K DSP (48000) -> Back to Sonar (44100 again, after 48000) -> kX DSP (48000) -> Analog Out

In last case re-sample done triple time, and it's awful. I hope it isn't really a case, but if so - I should reconsider using kX.

Russ

What does "VST (MIDI to 44100) -> Sonar" mean? VST implies that you are using ASIO, and ASIO at 44100 (in kX) has no inputs (i.e. ASIO input to Sonar is not possible at 44100 (with kX)), so the above does not really makes sense. I would guess that you mean MIDI via a VSTi within Sonar itself? in which case, the only re-sampling (from kX) would be from Sonar to the DSP.

dancing.sphinx

It means that after VST renders MIDI into Wave (using 44100 samples) it goes back to Sonar where you can mix it with another track or simply change volume before it goes to "Sonar Master Out" or whatsoever. Am I wrong? Ok, I could simplify the question by asking directly: how many re-sample operations occur when I use BFD, DFH, Addictive Drums or any other Drum Synth VST by using Sonar 5 and mixing it in real-time with some wave track (KX ASIO settings & Sonar project = 44100)? Drum Synth use only MIDI input, there is no wave input to them (so the is no no re-sample at that step, it may happen only after VST generates Wave from MIDI).

And another for company: what will be if I change KX & Sonar project settings to 48000, when using VST with 44100 samples library? Who will be responsible for re-sample routine - VST, Sonar or emu10k DSP? Can I change re-sample quality options in case of VST or Sonar?

Russ

In your scenario, the MIDI is generated in the software at the sampling rate it is programmed to, so there is no re-sampling involved. Re-sampling would only occur between Sonar and the DSP (on playback). As for mixing, I am not sure what would happen here in Sonar, when dealing with audio at different sample-rates. My guess would be that the program expects all the audio/files to be at the same sample-rate (the one that you set for the project), and thus does not do any re-sampling on its own, but such questions should really be asked in a forum specific to the software you are using (i.e. Sonar).

As for the second question, AFAIK, it is the VSTi's responsibility to handle different (common) samplerates. I think what would happen here is that audio from the VST would be slightly off pitch, but again, some programs might handle it differently, so I cannot say for sure.

BTW: I do not have Sonar, or any of the VST's that you mention... and I do not really use ASIO in this manner (I hardly ever use VSTi's), so I cannot answer every scenario, etc.

This appears to be fixed in 3540.