No "Closed Captions" In Playback of Captured Video

Dyre Straits · Sep 21, 2004, 11:44 PM

I've been capturing video from the TV lately with my new B/B ATi AIW 9600.

Even though the captioning is showing up both on the TV and in the Video while it's being captured, I CANNOT get any captioning to appear in the playback. I'm capturing using .avi format and I've tried to playback using both the ATi Player and Windows Media Player 10.

Since I'm nearly deaf, this is a MUST feature for me. So, what do I need to do?

I'm using MMC 9.1 to do the capturing.

Vampyromaniac · Sep 22, 2004, 01:43 AM

has it ever worked for you on another card? I'm not sure it's even supported on the AIW's . . . maybe try MPEG-2 format?
hopefully someone can clear this up

by the way, what do you mean by "both in the TV and in the Video"?

Dyre Straits · Sep 22, 2004, 05:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vampyromaniac

........by the way, what do you mean by "both in the TV and in the Video"?

What I had before was the Radeon 64 VIVO. I was never able to get it working on that one. But, I've read on other sites that the Closed Captions were supposed to be saved to a .cc file. At this point, I can't find anything like this.

As for the clarification to your question above: While doing the capturing from TV, I have the captions showing up both on the TV and on the Computer screen during the capturing process. In other words, Captions are ENABLED on both the TV source and on the Video screen during the process. So, since the captions do show up during the capturing process, I'm puzzled as to why they won't/don't show up during playback.

I'd really like to see this working.

Vampyromaniac · Sep 22, 2004, 07:54 PM

Ah, you mean a separate television

I'll see if I have any video-tapes with CC, and try to do some testing for you

Dyre Straits · Sep 22, 2004, 09:04 PM

Thanks a bunch. I'll be looking for your reply/results.

Vampyromaniac · Sep 23, 2004, 02:06 AM

OK, so I popped in The Matrix, and turned on the ol' CC.
I tried several different formats, and no CC was recorded in the files

I think the problem is that the CC's are played in a separate frequency range than the video and audio,
and the record function of the TV app only pays attention to and captures the video and audio frequencies.
The fact that the CC's are displayed in the TV app while it is recording doesn't change the fact that the recorder ignores those frequencies in the video input. Even image captures for the TV app omit any CC that might be displayed at that moment (which makes sense of course).
About a separate file containing the CC's . . . the only thing like that in the MMC is the TV Magazine function, which simply captures all CC's to a file, either html rtf or txt. I did some into a txt, and it looks like:

Code:

  -------------------------
  Composite Input 
  Wed Sep 22 21:43:40 2004
  -------------------------
  
  A singular consciousness
  that spawned an entire race
  of machines.
  We don't know who
  struck first, us or them,
  but we know that it was us
  that scorched the sky.
  [Thunder]
  At the time, they were
  dependent on solar power,
  and it was believed
  that they would
  be unable to survive
  without an energy source
  as abundant as the sun.
  Throughout human history,
  we have been dependent
  on machines to survive.
  [Chuckles]
  Fate, it seems,
  is not without
  a sense of irony.
  [Thunder]
  Morpheus: The human body
  generates
  more bioelectricity
  than a 120-volt battery
  and over 25,000 btus
  of body heat.
  Combined with
  a form of fusion,
  the machines had found
  all the energy
  they would ever need.

I don't know how much use that would be . . . .

The only thing I could think to suggest is to try to find a different TV app that can record the input and include the CC's. I really don't think it is possible with the MMC.

Dyre Straits · Sep 23, 2004, 05:40 PM

Thanks again. I, too, have tried all different kinds of ways to get it to work...without success.

This is something ATi should really look into as for developing. So many more people are using CC these days that it would benefit a good number of users.

Also, it's interesting that I can use my VCR to record a program and the VCR is able to play back the CC's...as long as they're turned on on the TV. Of course, the TV is already setup to utilize that 'other frequency' -- if that's what it is.

SciDoctor · Sep 24, 2004, 03:57 AM

From the ATI tuner Closed captions are only recorded with the .VCR recording format.

No other recording formats within the MMC will produce the .cc file that is needed (I have yet to see this feature added to any other codec yet)

Also , even though the Eazyshare uses a form of .VCR it does not send the .cc file details to the clients so the clients cannot view CC (I see this as a bug in the software).

For UK users I have yet to see with any MMC over the last two years produce usable CC even though the teletext 888 page gives very clear subtitles ; it would seem the conversion to CC is very poor .

As for direct recording of the TV image via svhs/composite ; I don't know if the specific fields that the TV uses to diplay the TEXT are used by the Rage theatre/theatre 200 chipsets and passed on to the ecording software suit.

Dyre Straits · Sep 24, 2004, 03:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SciDoctor

From the ATI tuner Closed captions are only recorded with the .VCR recording format.

No other recording formats within the MMC will produce the .cc file that is needed (I have yet to see this feature added to any other codec yet)

Also , even though the Eazyshare uses a form of .VCR it does not send the .cc file details to the clients so the clients cannot view CC (I see this as a bug in the software).

For UK users I have yet to see with any MMC over the last two years produce usable CC even though the teletext 888 page gives very clear subtitles ; it would seem the conversion to CC is very poor .

As for direct recording of the TV image via svhs/composite ; I don't know if the specific fields that the TV uses to diplay the TEXT are used by the Rage theatre/theatre 200 chipsets and passed on to the ecording software suit.

Thank you. I'll check this out.

However, in the past, when I've used the .VCR format, I cannot use the video editing programs I've had to do editing. I haven't tried anything with it for a couple of years now, so, maybe ATi has made this available now. Before, when I was trying it, the .VCR format was proprietary to ATi.

SciDoctor · Sep 24, 2004, 06:10 PM

Not many editing programs suport the .vcr format .

The ATI library has a featre to export the .vcr files to mpeg2 /4 etc , there are quite a few options.

Vampyromaniac · Sep 30, 2004, 02:57 PM

Ah, I didn't try VCR because its proprietary. Indeed CC works only there, and creates a .cc file.
I looked around to see if any programs support these .cc files, but couldn't find any

It looks like your only option is to use the VCR format and have the video remain unedited

Dyre Straits · Sep 30, 2004, 02:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vampyromaniac

Ah, I didn't try VCR because its proprietary. Indeed CC works only there, and creates a .cc file.
I looked around to see if any programs support these .cc files, but couldn't find any

It looks like your only option is to use the VCR format and have the video remain unedited

Thanks a bunch for checking this out. Perhaps ATi can consider something that allows CC in other formats. (Keeps fingers crossed.)

Vampyromaniac · Sep 30, 2004, 03:14 PM

I don't think it would be too difficult to include an option to capture the displayed CC's as part of the actual video, at least. Try submitting this thru their feedback page, maybe if enough people are asking about it, they'll work on it

sorry I couldn't be of more help, friend

Dyre Straits · Sep 30, 2004, 03:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vampyromaniac

I don't think it would be too difficult to include an option to capture the displayed CC's as part of the actual video, at least. Try submitting this thru their feedback page, maybe if enough people are asking about it, they'll work on it

sorry I couldn't be of more help, friend

I really appreciate you taking the time to check things out on this.

Since many -- if not most -- of us like capturing in MPEG-2 or even MPEG-4, it's a shame that we -- who are deaf -- would have to change gears in the program everytime we want to capture something for viewing later.

It would be nice to see a comment from the ATi team about this.

The feedback suggestion is a good one, too.

Sep 22, 2004, 01:43 AM	#2
Vampyromaniac confutatis maledictis Join Date: May 2002 Location: somewhere dark Posts: 5,974 Rep Power: 60 System Specs	has it ever worked for you on another card? I'm not sure it's even supported on the AIW's . . . maybe try MPEG-2 format? hopefully someone can clear this up by the way, what do you mean by "both in the TV and in the Video"? __________________ *Digitalis 3.3* Athlon 64 3000 // ASUS K8V SE Deluxe // 1024MB PC3200 (2-2-2-10 1T) ATI All-In-Wonder 9700 Pro // 20" Dell 2005FPW (DVI) M-Audio Revo 7.1 + Philips Acoustic Edge // Klipsch ProMedia 2.1 320/16 Western Digital WD3200KS + 120/8 Seagate 7200.7 NEC ND-3550A 16x DVD±RW + Lite-On 52x24x CD-RW Antec Sonata case // 480W Antec TruePower personal bests \|\| Aq'3: 46796 \| 3D'01: 20461 \| 3D'03: 6336 \| 3D'05: 2677 \| PC'04: 4605 \| PC'02: 7691,9092,1250

Sep 22, 2004, 07:54 PM	#4
Vampyromaniac confutatis maledictis Join Date: May 2002 Location: somewhere dark Posts: 5,974 Rep Power: 60 System Specs	Ah, you mean a separate television I'll see if I have any video-tapes with CC, and try to do some testing for you __________________ *Digitalis 3.3* Athlon 64 3000 // ASUS K8V SE Deluxe // 1024MB PC3200 (2-2-2-10 1T) ATI All-In-Wonder 9700 Pro // 20" Dell 2005FPW (DVI) M-Audio Revo 7.1 + Philips Acoustic Edge // Klipsch ProMedia 2.1 320/16 Western Digital WD3200KS + 120/8 Seagate 7200.7 NEC ND-3550A 16x DVD±RW + Lite-On 52x24x CD-RW Antec Sonata case // 480W Antec TruePower personal bests \|\| Aq'3: 46796 \| 3D'01: 20461 \| 3D'03: 6336 \| 3D'05: 2677 \| PC'04: 4605 \| PC'02: 7691,9092,1250

Sep 23, 2004, 02:06 AM	#6
Vampyromaniac confutatis maledictis Join Date: May 2002 Location: somewhere dark Posts: 5,974 Rep Power: 60 System Specs	OK, so I popped in The Matrix, and turned on the ol' CC. I tried several different formats, and no CC was recorded in the files I think the problem is that the CC's are played in a separate frequency range than the video and audio, and the record function of the TV app only pays attention to and captures the video and audio frequencies. The fact that the CC's are displayed in the TV app while it is recording doesn't change the fact that the recorder ignores those frequencies in the video input. Even image captures for the TV app omit any CC that might be displayed at that moment (which makes sense of course). About a separate file containing the CC's . . . the only thing like that in the MMC is the TV Magazine function, which simply captures all CC's to a file, either html rtf or txt. I did some into a txt, and it looks like: Code: ------------------------- Composite Input Wed Sep 22 21:43:40 2004 ------------------------- A singular consciousness that spawned an entire race of machines. We don't know who struck first, us or them, but we know that it was us that scorched the sky. [Thunder] At the time, they were dependent on solar power, and it was believed that they would be unable to survive without an energy source as abundant as the sun. Throughout human history, we have been dependent on machines to survive. [Chuckles] Fate, it seems, is not without a sense of irony. [Thunder] Morpheus: The human body generates more bioelectricity than a 120-volt battery and over 25,000 btus of body heat. Combined with a form of fusion, the machines had found all the energy they would ever need. I don't know how much use that would be . . . . The only thing I could think to suggest is to try to find a different TV app that can record the input and include the CC's. I really don't think it is possible with the MMC. __________________ *Digitalis 3.3* Athlon 64 3000 // ASUS K8V SE Deluxe // 1024MB PC3200 (2-2-2-10 1T) ATI All-In-Wonder 9700 Pro // 20" Dell 2005FPW (DVI) M-Audio Revo 7.1 + Philips Acoustic Edge // Klipsch ProMedia 2.1 320/16 Western Digital WD3200KS + 120/8 Seagate 7200.7 NEC ND-3550A 16x DVD±RW + Lite-On 52x24x CD-RW Antec Sonata case // 480W Antec TruePower personal bests \|\| Aq'3: 46796 \| 3D'01: 20461 \| 3D'03: 6336 \| 3D'05: 2677 \| PC'04: 4605 \| PC'02: 7691,9092,1250

Sep 30, 2004, 02:57 PM	#11
Vampyromaniac confutatis maledictis Join Date: May 2002 Location: somewhere dark Posts: 5,974 Rep Power: 60 System Specs	Ah, I didn't try VCR because its proprietary. Indeed CC works only there, and creates a .cc file. I looked around to see if any programs support these .cc files, but couldn't find any It looks like your only option is to use the VCR format and have the video remain unedited __________________ *Digitalis 3.3* Athlon 64 3000 // ASUS K8V SE Deluxe // 1024MB PC3200 (2-2-2-10 1T) ATI All-In-Wonder 9700 Pro // 20" Dell 2005FPW (DVI) M-Audio Revo 7.1 + Philips Acoustic Edge // Klipsch ProMedia 2.1 320/16 Western Digital WD3200KS + 120/8 Seagate 7200.7 NEC ND-3550A 16x DVD±RW + Lite-On 52x24x CD-RW Antec Sonata case // 480W Antec TruePower personal bests \|\| Aq'3: 46796 \| 3D'01: 20461 \| 3D'03: 6336 \| 3D'05: 2677 \| PC'04: 4605 \| PC'02: 7691,9092,1250

Sep 30, 2004, 03:14 PM	#13
Vampyromaniac confutatis maledictis Join Date: May 2002 Location: somewhere dark Posts: 5,974 Rep Power: 60 System Specs	I don't think it would be too difficult to include an option to capture the displayed CC's as part of the actual video, at least. Try submitting this thru their feedback page, maybe if enough people are asking about it, they'll work on it sorry I couldn't be of more help, friend __________________ *Digitalis 3.3* Athlon 64 3000 // ASUS K8V SE Deluxe // 1024MB PC3200 (2-2-2-10 1T) ATI All-In-Wonder 9700 Pro // 20" Dell 2005FPW (DVI) M-Audio Revo 7.1 + Philips Acoustic Edge // Klipsch ProMedia 2.1 320/16 Western Digital WD3200KS + 120/8 Seagate 7200.7 NEC ND-3550A 16x DVD±RW + Lite-On 52x24x CD-RW Antec Sonata case // 480W Antec TruePower personal bests \|\| Aq'3: 46796 \| 3D'01: 20461 \| 3D'03: 6336 \| 3D'05: 2677 \| PC'04: 4605 \| PC'02: 7691,9092,1250

Sep 24, 2004, 03:57 AM	#8
SciDoctor DriverHeaven Newbie Join Date: Dec 2002 Posts: 6 Rep Power: 0	From the ATI tuner Closed captions are only recorded with the .VCR recording format. No other recording formats within the MMC will produce the .cc file that is needed (I have yet to see this feature added to any other codec yet) Also , even though the Eazyshare uses a form of .VCR it does not send the .cc file details to the clients so the clients cannot view CC (I see this as a bug in the software). For UK users I have yet to see with any MMC over the last two years produce usable CC even though the teletext 888 page gives very clear subtitles ; it would seem the conversion to CC is very poor . As for direct recording of the TV image via svhs/composite ; I don't know if the specific fields that the TV uses to diplay the TEXT are used by the Rage theatre/theatre 200 chipsets and passed on to the ecording software suit.

Sep 24, 2004, 06:10 PM	#10
SciDoctor DriverHeaven Newbie Join Date: Dec 2002 Posts: 6 Rep Power: 0	Not many editing programs suport the .vcr format . The ATI library has a featre to export the .vcr files to mpeg2 /4 etc , there are quite a few options.