Delay when recording MIDI

cerendir

Hello everyone,

First of all let me say that I'm very, very impressed by the kX drivers. Thanks to them, my cheap old Live! Value works great for both audio recording and virtual instruments. A great big thanks to the people behind kX!

However, there's a problem somewhere. I'm not saying it's related to kX -- as a matter of fact I doubt it, since as far as I can remember this problem predates my use of these drivers -- but this forum seems to be full of knowledgable people so it seems like a good place to ask

The problem is that sometimes when I record midi, the notes end up being late even if I play in time. Don't get me wrong, I'm not talking about ASIO latency or anything here. I have a 4ms latency and all instruments work just great. My performance, while recording, might be completely spot on, but when I listen to the recorded track all notes are delayed, all of them shifted by the same amount. I can't say how much exactly, but it's roughly a sixteenth note, depending on tempo. What makes this even weirder is that this happens only after a while. When I start my sequencer (Cubase VST 32), it works fine. But after having stopped and resumed playback a few times the problem rears its ugly head. It can only be resolved -- temporarily -- by choosing Reset Devices or restarting the program.

My system is an AMD Athlon 64 3200+ (Abit KN8 motherboard) with 1GB RAM, Sound Blaster Live! Value, running Windows XP Pro SP2. I use a plethora of freeware VST instruments -- a few GTG synths, LightBag II, MiniMougueVA, StringSynth, CrazyDiamonds, 4Front Piano and mda Piano, plus SFZ for loading a couple soundfonts converted to sfz format. My midi keyboard is an M-Audio Keystation 49e.

Thoughts, anyone?

Lex Nahumury

Only one;
Make sure that your sequencer is set to work at 48khz ASIO (not 44khz),
and all your audio files (if any) in your project are also in 48khz format.

Audio to MIDI timing may suffer if sequencer is forced to 44kHz.

HTH,

/Lex.

cerendir

Nope, that's not it. Cubase is set to 48kHz, and this still happens. :/

TravelRec.

Are you sure you are using kX-Asio driver and not the cubase generic drivers?

cerendir

Yes yes, absolutely sure. As mentioned I have a 4ms latency when playing soft synths; with the generic Cubase drivers it wouldn't be possible to play in time to begin with

This delay I'm talking about happens when recording, almost as if the notes aren't "saved" the same instant they're played.

Maddogg6

Is there an option for 'quantize' input while recording ?


Or - are you un-necessarily using the 'monitor' function on the track in cubase?
If you feel forced in using 'monitor' function in cubase - instead: (in KX DSP..) re-rout VSTi output to the ASIO input for recording AND to elpilog/KXlt outputs for monitoring - Im thinking you are relying on the 'monitor' function to hear the instrument while your recording/rendering to a wave track. - which adds significant latency in my experience.


?? sorry thats all I can think of.

cerendir

Um... I'm talking about MIDI, not audio. See the thread title

And as far quantize... well theres an auto quantize option in Cubase but I prefer not to use it. Also, this delay is sometimes so severe that even if the notes are quantized they snap to the wrong beat (i.e. a 16th note late).

TravelRec.

I would think that Cubase VST32 (Ver 5.0) is buggy. I had the program before and also no luck. The same is for Cubase VST24 (ver.3.7). Try to use a newer product, so the SX series. For testing try another sequencer, like cakewalk or fruity-loops to check your MIDI-performance.

Maddogg6

Yes - I can read. - and did - you DID mention using VSTi - which are basically AUDIO effects - designed to respond to MIDI data...

But yes - you clarified recording MIDI data and NOT audio rendering from a MIDI performance of a VSTi or KX synth - there IS a difference - but few distinguish this explicitly. Some will just call it 'recording midi' in both instances.

So ... the monitor switch on a VSTi track point is STILL valid (its an AUDIO TRACK right?). - recording MIDI sent to this VSTi or recording the audio from the 'performance' with it - eitherway - with the monitor set to ON on a VSTi track will add additional latency - when you can re-rout KX dsp to avoid needing the monitor function.

Did you try recording MIDI data with that MIDI tracks MIDI OUT device set to a KX Synth or an output MIDI port and drive an external hardware sound module/synth? Whats latency like then?


Then again - I never really liked cubase - and for this to be a bug in an older version would NOT suprise me.

Lex Nahumury

Yep, I agree with maddog and travel;

If all mentioned common user mistakes are ruled out,
it's probably your Sequencer not liking your midi-in port.

BTW; do you use an USB midiport, or kxUART?
Even some Cubase SX versions can have midi-in timing problems with USB midiports.
(lots of such reports in various cubase forums)

cerendir

Hey guys, sorry for taking my sweet time responding but I've been out of town for a while.

Anyway, I have since my last post moved to Cubase SX 2 and this delay problem has gone away. I've been recording happily for a couple of days now, so it seems like it was indeed Cubase VST32 that didn't like my midi keyboard (which is a USB keyboard btw) very much.

Thanks for all your help and suggestions.

(and damn, did they change a lot of stuff between VST32 and SX! Feels like the first day in school again )