Bank changes in Emu APS ?

swayzak

hi

I'm currently enjoying my revived APS card on an old P3 800 PC with the Emu XP drivers (blasphemy I know but...)

I'm trying to change soundfont banks from EnergyXT (patch changes work fine) but I can't find reference to the MSB / LSB controller numbers for Midi banks 1-127 to access different soundfonts.

I don't suppose anyone knows this do they ?

thanks

swayzak

Maddogg6

CC 0 (LSB) and 32 (MSB) - are the bank select controllers

swayzak

Cool - thanks !

So if I want to change banks, what messages do I have to send for banks 1 to 127 - do I just change the LSB from 0 upto 127, keeping MSB as 32 ?

I'm not particularly midi-savvie..

Maddogg6

well it depends on the device - some can work with JUST CC0 (APSLive was this way IIRC)
KX by default uses MSB+LSB -

Bu this should always work for banks 0-127...
CC0, # - send the LSB of your desired bank
CC32 ,0 - send MSB (always 0 if bankes < 127)

Note: Sonar treats bank selects differently (more directly, no user need to mess with CC's for bank selections)

Look for your EMU APS 'MIDI IMPLEMENTATION' chart - it supplies much off the technical info in a short table format.

Maddogg6

for clarity

To select 'patch 12' that is in Bank 33...

I would send: CC 0 - 33, CC32 - 0, Patch change to 12


What are you using? - an external keyboard, or a midi host? Whats your circumstance?

swayzak

Thanks again.

I'm trying to send bank change messages from EnergyXT via Nicfit's Patch Changer midi plugin.

Still no joy here - tried setting MSB to 0 and using LSB to select bank (for instance, I loaded a few small soundfonts into user banks 1 and 3 in the APS mixer soundfont bank manager).

I'll keep trying.....

Maddogg6

Does the patch changer send CC's also - I could see this as a possibility??

Also - look at those sontfonts with vienna - or other SF editor - and verify that they are programmed for BANK 0 .

It *mey* be a case of:

SF is programmed for BANK 1 - But when loaded in BANK 3 (via SF loader) - those patches *should* be available in BANK 4 (Bank 3 + 1) - Like an offest - BUT, this *may* not work this way either - it depends on how the APS driver deals with BANK OFFSETS (or not??)

Seems to me - I had to convert SF's (when using APS Live) to NOT use banks >0 to avoid this problem.

What SF file are you trying to use?

swayzak

I'm not sure what happens with this plugin but it's pretty simple. The patch changer works fine - it's just the bank changing I can't do.

Here's a screen shot of what I'm trying to do:

http://img112.imageshack.us/img112/5...board012ql.jpg

I've tried to set MSB = 0 and then scrolled through 0 - 127 with LSB. The soundfont bank I want is put in bank number 1 in the APS mixer SF Bank Manager so selecting 1 (or 2 ?) should bring up that sound.

But it doesn't - just the same default bank (bank 0) plays...

Even if there was a minor variation in bank number assignment of this particular bank, it should still get read when I select the appropriate LSB number, shouldn't it (e.g. 2, 3 etc.) ?

swayzak

Maddogg6

The patch changer *could* also send CC's too.
For instance - in Sonar, I set a configuration that tells Sonar to use Both CC0 and CC32 when sending patch changes - but I could have set it to use ONLY CC32 - and NOT CC0...

Now - looking at that pic - can I assume the 'patch changer' is the window with 'NF_PC_CK2'?
Im seeing that its got the LSB AND MSB set to 'off' - use these instead of MIDI CC's - these controls *should* send a CC0 - LSB and CC32 MSB - Patch Change - and it looks like the order in which these are sent can be configured as well.


AND - you didnt address this part of my last post -

swayzak

thanks again

Yeah I've tried using the PC CK2 MSB / LSB parameters but nothing happened. I also tried sending them in 2 different orders (LSB, MSB and MSB, LSB).

Actually I thought that as you said the CC 32 should be left alone, I 've also tried leaving this set to OFF and just used the LSB parameter.

Sorry for being a dimwit but how do I check the programmed bank number in Vienna ?...I had a look but couldn't see it in file info.

I'm trying a few sf2.1 files e.g. this is one http://www.savefile.com/files/8220546

swayzak

Maddogg6

Ive verified that the SF works (Bank 0 Patch 0 - is all thats available in that SF you posted)
I also verified (Looked at the EMU APS MIDI Implementation chart) that EMU APS Uses ONLY CC0 to select banks (CC32 can be ignored completely)

So if loading that SF file into Bank 1 - and sending a CC0=1 & Patch = 0 - Doesn't work - you may need to get an EMU APS or Host SW eggspurt's help.

swayzak

thanks again for all your help...I shall await Emu's response and post again.

swayzak

swayzak

Emu say that they can't change banks from XT either (and funnily enough I can't do it from FLS 6) - so if I want to use the APS "properly" I'm stuck with Cubase VST 5.1....no bad thing as it handles the APS beautifully and is a good host sequencer for my P3 800.

I can use XT as a VSTi in Cubase if I want.

swayzak

Maddogg6

Let me guess - Cubase XT came with the EMU card - am I right? - ROTFLMAO... it would make *perfect* sense if so....

Wait a minute - CUBASE XT DOESN'T allow inputting a CC in a track
Then a patch change....

This is STUPID...if so -

I have to beleive you can add these midi events to a track manually..

Granted - its a crappy work around - and I like to be able to 'see' the patch name... but it should still work with ANY sequencer...

swayzak

Sorry but it's Energy XT I'm talking about here...

Also, I bought Cubase 5 as an upgrade from VST 3.7 (many moons ago...).

So why I can't do bank changes (but can do patch changes) from other apps is a mystery to me

However, as I said, Cubase 5 works really well with the APS !

swayzak