big_D

Where to start, this discussions has covered a lot of topics...

Linux users don't have any influence? As somebody else said, the average Joe doesn't know anything about graphics cards or where to go online to find out. They ask their techy friends or their support partner. When speccing for friends, family or customers, I always specify nVidia if I can, because I know it won't cause problems, whereas ATi has always been problematic in my experience, whether under Windows or Linux.

As to suppliers having to support different distributions, as has been said, the core Linux Kernel and the X layer are common to most distributions, it is the additional software and tools which make the distribution unique, so as long as the driver supports the Kernel and either Xfree86 or X.org then it doesn't really matter which distribution you go for.

Some like SUSE will automatically load the nVidia drivers for you during your first online update!

It is sad situation for ATi when the "best" nVidia set-up for 3D under Linux is a SLI set-up of FX7800 family cards, whilst the "best" ATi card for 3D is a Radeon 9250! (That is the model number that is usually bandied around in the Linux newsgroups and forums as being the latest to get 3D support from ATi ISTR).

I have a number of desktops and laptops running Linux, using mainly nVidia cards, one laptop uses an old SiS chipset from 2000 and a newish laptop with an ATi Radeon Mobility X700.

After install, the nVidia based machines have working 3D and dual-head support. The SiS chipset doesn't really have any 3D support, but will just about manage an OpenGL screensaver. The X700 based laptop? It displays a blank screen (the OSS radeon driver can't drive the chipset at any resolution and the monitor goes into stand-by mode), not a good start.

Calling up a text console allows me to manually install the ATi drivers, hand-editing the xorg.conf to then use said driver allows me to start the X graphics session - in 2D, not exactly user friendly... According to ATi the X700 is incapable of 3D acceleration!

On my main workstation I use a widescreen 20.1" TFT, the nVidia cards recognise it and SUSE supports it without having to load any additional software. My other workstation is running dual-head 17" TFT's through a nVidia FX5900XT, again, no problems with support.

I can understand Pete's frustration at ATi, but knowing that ATi support is abysmal and knowing he wanted to use Linux, why did he buy an ATi? Why not go straight for nVidia? He could still have made his point. It sounds like cutting off his nose to spite his face...

My Windows experience with ATi hasn't been a bed of roses over the years either, their drivers were always flaky when I had ATi cards (Rage and Rage128). Since then I've been mostly nVidia and their Windows drivers have always been rock solid for me.

So why did I end up with a X700 based laptop? I needed a 3D capable laptop in a hurry, I was going on a trip where I would need some good 3D acceleration under Windows on my laptop, so given the choice in my local highstreet between shared memory Intel or SiS chipsets, 1 nVidia Go5200 or a spanking new X700 PCIe chipset, there wasn't a lot of choice - I had 1 day to buy the machine and configure it before leaving. After I got back from the trip, I wanted to make it Linux dual-boot, only having experience with nVidia it was a bit of a shock, instead of it running in default 2D mode until I checked a box to download the 3D capable driver, I was left with a sleeping screen!

As to general Linux driver support...

Here are some comparisons from my recent experience (using the same A8V deluxe A64 machine):

Case 1: LG 20.1" widescreen display - Windows, go into Desktop Properties and adjust resolution to 1680x1080; Linux, informed that a new Monitor had been detected, did I want to start the video card and monitor settings program? Changed resolution to 1680x1080. Windows 1 - Linux 1

Case 2: Upgrade FX5900XT to FX6600GT - Windows, reverted to SVGA mode until I de-installed the existing nVidia drivers, loaded the nVidia drivers supplied with card; Linux, informed me that a new FX6600GT had been detected (machine had booted into 1680x1050 mode as before), and the device settings had been updated. Windows 0 - Linux 1

Case 3: Samsung ML-1520 printer - Windows, a new printer (correctly identified) had been found, please feed me! Linux, a new printer (correctly identified) had been found, printer configuration opened and the correct Samsung driver selected as a default (I didn't even need to load the Samsung provided Linux driver from the delivered CD). Windows 0 - Linux 1

Case 4: HP PSC2610 network attached printer - Windows, 45 minutes to install the supplied HP driver and utility set for the printer; Linux, point the printer configuration dialog at the network address of the printer, selelct an HP driver and print a test page, under 1 minute including user interaction...

OK, that is a little unfair on the PSC2610, the utilities for Windows includes a lot of junk I probably don't need, the plain driver on its own probably would have taken a couple of minutes to install... But again, I still would have needed the CD provided with the printer, whereas SUSE Linux had a plethora of HP drivers pre-installed. Windows 0 - Linux 0.5 (drivers available for Linux but not auto-detected)

Total Windows 1 - Linux 3.5

Linux driver support for most common devices - with the exception of products from companies like ATi - is pretty good. And don't forget Windows support for hardware is pretty non-existent, it is the manufacturers support for their own devices under Windows that makes them work, a lot of devices won't do anything, or can't be used to their full potential, under Windows until the supplied driver CD has been loaded...

My A64 workstation (Asus A8V Deluxe) was a doddle with SUSE 64-bit to install, S-ATA recognised, SB Audigy 2ZS recognised, FX5900XT recognised, Marvell Ethernet port on mobo recognised, dual DVD burners recognised... 1 reboot and it is patched, apps installed and online in around 1 hour.

Under Windows XP Pro, S-ATA? No hard disk attached to PC! I had to go back to the store where I purchased the components and borrow a floppy drive to load the S-ATA drivers into Windows Setup, once that was done, Windows installed onto the S-ATA drive (and floppy drive returned to shop, GREAT service). That left me with SVGA graphics, no networking, no sound and the DVD burners were recognised, but no DVD-RAM capability. A bundle of driver CD's and online updates, and several hours and dozens of reboots later and the PC was usable and I could start installing the apps...

And that was nearly 2 years ago, since then SUSE's, and Linux in generals, driver support has increased beyond recognition, whilst XP Pro hasn't changed its situation... Companies like Microsoft and ATi really need to open their eyes and see what the rest of the industry is doing.

I'm not saying Linux is the best solution for everybody, and some versions are easier to use than others. BUT sitting their with the old rhetoric of it being a niche market and unfriendly are not true any more. They need to get a clue quickly or they will be left behind...