Please Read Mr. Amr Khaled’s Message to the World regarding the Danish Cartoons

Nacht · Feb 9, 2006, 12:56 AM

I believe that religion is a hindrence to society in general and specifically to capitalism, freedom, and in some cases, morality (As we see here).

SFOSOK · Feb 9, 2006, 01:55 AM

Great way to broadly generalize religion as one thing. Way to go. Do you want a cookie?

Nacht · Feb 9, 2006, 02:21 AM

Well, if you want the long form, I could go into the Judeo/Christian ethics based around being self-less and even shaming those that are profitable and/or self serving. This doesn't pose much of a threat to capitalism at first inspection...but it creates deep rooted perceptions in society that are dangerous to the advancement of man. For example, in the States today we have fairly strong property rights and effecient means of transferring these rights, the basics needed for a strong capitalist and democratic society. However, the values instilled by certain parts of religion create a mindset that being self-centered or profitable is bad, and in some cases, immoral. This can lead to many ineffeciencies in the market, ranging from "guilty" donations and charities to laws requiring income and windfall taxes (which, hah, are in place now).

My point is, that being self-centered is not immoral. Contrary, it is self-centeredness that causes the greatest good for society when clear, rational thought is used.

It's late, ill come back later

SFOSOK · Feb 9, 2006, 02:23 AM

You don't know very many good christians do you?

And yes it is late, but I have no life right now except argue on these forums bout things that will never be resolved lol

Lakevren · Feb 9, 2006, 02:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nacht

I believe that religion is a hindrence to society in general and specifically to capitalism, freedom, and in some cases, morality (As we see here).

lol...

Hinderance is the wrong word for it. If anything, it develops society.

Oh and for those that don't know, FYI Islam has an anti-iconism aspect (iconoclasm), meaning no pictures of god or Muhammad or other figures, or sacred objects.

It's not that the comic disrespected Muhammad, it's the fact that he was "iconed".

And I linked in the other thread of how the media is exagerrating the "Muslim violence", particularly by CNN, and not to mention a delayed reaction. If it was so popular when it was released, it should have had violence at September 30.
The article: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/4685886.stm

Oh and, I know this isn't the flame warzone, but... your apathy and misunderstanding reeks. But that's your view.

Rasta Monsta · Feb 9, 2006, 12:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lakevren

If anything, it develops society.

. . .your apathy and misunderstanding reeks. But that's your view.

No institution in human history has consumed more resources and produced less than organized regligion. . .although it does stand as the archetypal blueprint for the institutionalized manipulation and control of the powerless and ignorant by the powerful.

Baaah!

rasta

Sandok · Feb 9, 2006, 12:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rasta Monsta

No institution in human history has consumed more resources and produced less than organized regligion. . .although it does stand as the archetypal blueprint for the institutionalized manipulation and control of the powerless and ignorant by the powerful.

Baaah!

rasta

Totally agreed

Necrosis · Feb 9, 2006, 12:33 PM

Here we go on another debate about religion. How about leaving religion out of this one folks? BTW, the new religion is science. So stick that in your pipe & smoke it!!!

Sandok · Feb 9, 2006, 01:13 PM

LOL mate how you wanna leave out religion when religion is the subject?!

And no, with you, I shall never ever discuss this subject again

SFOSOK · Feb 9, 2006, 01:14 PM

Atheism, science they are all pretty much religions because all require faith.

**Vikingod** · Feb 9, 2006, 01:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Green Death Flavor

Atheism, science they are all pretty much religions because all require faith.

no they require tested, tangible, recent verifiable data. I hate to say facts, as it opens itself to critisizm.

Anyway, every one check out this thread. I think the article makes a good point.

http://www.driverheaven.net/showthre...970#post782970

SFOSOK · Feb 9, 2006, 02:23 PM

No science still requires faith in that you do can never truelly prove something, everything is based off each other everything goes back to theories of how the world started, there is now way t ofind out how the world actually started therefore it is a theory. You have to accept that theory (faith) in order to proceed with any other "facts" that may be discovered. And there are many scientific "facts" that have been disproven from when science first arived and after its seperation from the church. Truth is something is only a fact if you think it is which still requires your faith in the information.

Nacht · Feb 9, 2006, 08:34 PM

No, but there is actually some sort of physical evidence to suggest that it could have possibly happened in that fasion...Which religion has none of. Also, the bible would have you believe some magical / super human feats, while everything in science could actually happen given the constraints of humans and physics.

Quote:

You don't know very many good christians do you?

No, I know alot. I'm not trying to claim that religion makes people bad, that would be absurd. I'm simply saying that religion, specifically, Judeo/Christian religion plants base ideas that being self-centered and living for oneself is somehow immoral... Which it is not.

Quote:

If anything, it develops society.

Christianity definitely isn't helping the capitalist movement. It may have helped start it with the "protestant work ethic"...but religion wasn't the only factor in the emergence of the system.

Quote:

Oh and, I know this isn't the flame warzone, but... your apathy and misunderstanding reeks. But that's your view.

What am I misunderstanding?

Necrosis · Feb 9, 2006, 09:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sandok

LOL mate how you wanna leave out religion when religion is the subject?!

And no, with you, I shall never ever discuss this subject again

1. 1 religion in particular.

2. Just saying if religion would go away we wouldn't have these problems is foolish. Religion is the excuse, human beings are the reason.

Sandok · Feb 10, 2006, 12:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Necrosis

1. 1 religion in particular.

2. Just saying if religion would go away we wouldn't have these problems is foolish. Religion is the excuse, human beings are the reason.

Very true, tis one religion in particular... But I'm sure more and more stories will pop around of the other religions (just go to India for dirt on Hinduism

)

And again, very very true. I don't mind religion mate as long as it's not a pretext to kill and destroy everything we stand for. Nothing should EVER be taken to extremes and IMHO (I did say IMHO), religion is ONE of the worst things when used extremely to do what we will...

SFOSOK · Feb 10, 2006, 01:02 AM

Yay for lack of vagueness.

Rasta Monsta · Feb 10, 2006, 01:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Necrosis

Religion is the excuse, human beings are the reason.

Yeah, religion don't kill people, fanatics kill people!

rasta

the_mooniest · Feb 11, 2006, 07:55 AM

I don't care about religious dogmas

mike2h · Feb 11, 2006, 12:01 PM

profound.

LinuxDude · Mar 9, 2006, 06:38 AM

I think its plain stupid, no human being on earth has the right to hurt another human, to kill another human, if you believe in God, then God is the only being who has the right to do so. These groups regardless of their religion (you get fanatics in every religion), Christians, Hindus, Sikhs and Islamic followers use the excuses of religion to condone violence yet who are they to do so?

They are not divine beings sent to earth to propogate Gods message they are not perfect so what gives them the right to do what they do?.

Times have changed from when these religions first formed and when they were being persecuted they had to take up arms to defend themselves but they can't do that now, we no longer live in the dark ages and times have changed we as people are more civil in most cases. There can be no excuses to take peoples lives to mame and injure another Human on the grounds that it offends your religion, after all we are all Gods creation.

If these people firmly believe that by commiting murder using Jihad or what ever as a disguise you are doing the work of God, they are sadly mistaken there can be no excuses for killing innocent people.

Those who brainwash and persuade people into carrying out attacks such as those in London or the twin towers aren't religious, they are cowards using religion as an excuse to carry out their will not Gods and should be bought to justice.

Ev!L-aLphA · Mar 10, 2006, 07:15 PM

i think its time to drop another atomic bomb.

Judas · Mar 10, 2006, 08:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ev!L-aLphA

i think its time to drop another atomic bomb.

imo... that isn't going to solve much of anything other then cause even more problems..

now what did i say?

Religion....

radTube · Apr 1, 2006, 05:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nacht

My point is, that being self-centered is not immoral. Contrary, it is self-centeredness that causes the greatest good for society when clear, rational thought is used.

I'm not religious, but I have to strongly disagree. It's self-centeredness and the quest for personal gain and power that ultimately drives us to immoral deeds and lack of respect for others.

Well that's obvious isn't it? Self-centeredness and respect for others... They just don't mix well. So I have to agree with others here saying that any fundamentalism, even the capitalist kind, is A Bad Thing (TM). I for one would rather stay poor all my life rather than have others suffer for my benefit. But I guess I'm just funny that way.

Sorry about going OT, but it seems to be the thing to do around here

.