some songs to critique at your leisure

trevbushell

OK , I've stuck a few of my songs on the web for all to hear and give HONEST feedback on any of them.
(yes i mean it, its much better for me if you are, so i can develop and improve, so feel free to give honest opinions)


http://www.enginecreations.com/trevb/index.htm
and click top r hand circle for my songs.


to write the music i tend to use soundfonts via kxsfi played in by controller kbd and sometimes vsti's/wav files as well . i have friends who sometimes play in instruments (guitar etc) via the emu aps inputs.

my music is very eklectic, i.e. they are all very different i guess, but maybe not?? my main focus is on developing the song by building it up in layers and it is important for me to create an emotive melody.
i am useless at lyrics and melodies hence no vocals (also my voice is not outstanding!!!

my main downfall is I'm terrible at mixing, but getting better slowly.... you can probably date these 3 songs easily with that info!!!! i just get lost in cubase and kx with all those sends, ins outs etc!!! I need to get my head around the dsp big time and make it work better for me!! i struggle with the fxbusses and cubase when it comes to mixing and fx!! any help gratefully received.



anyway let us know.

trev

trevbushell

go on, dont be shy.... give us an opinion. it'll help me no end! negative comments VERY welcome too!

Tiger M

I listened to 'Breeze' and I must say that I'm impressed by the composition. I like it very much.

As for the mix, there is much to be desired. Panning, frequencies, reverberation. All of this could be much better.

I like to listen to a song from two different perspectives. First from the perspective of a casual listener (this could probably be achieved only in the first listening) and from that perspective I'm impressed. Secondly from the perspective of a guy who knows a few things about mixing and from that perspective I'm not impressed at all

The composition and the feel are the most important aspects of a song. Good mixing comes second.

trevbushell

thnx tiger thats kind of you ,yeah as ive said mixing is something i just cant get my head around. (it probably doesnt help being mp3 as you lose quality anyway.)

i really need someone to get alongside me who knows what they are doing and sort the songs out. maybe i need to look at that more

I also need a good tutorial in cubase and how it all works! that would probably help as i really get stuck with the mixer and all that.

youre kind of right about mix being the second most important aspect of a song, bit at the same time if the mix aint good, people that matter (ie- industry) arent gonna give it a thought!


have a listen to "freestyle..." i think i got the mix better here (maybe)?

Tiger M

Listened to "Freestile..."

Tell me that you've created the drum track (that it's original and not a loop) and that you've played the keyboards and I'll be speechless. Btw, where are you from, I used to have a drummer that was a sucker for those jazzy grooves (so am I).

The mix is again not very good, perhaps I'll give you a few pointers tomorrow evening... you could always get a book on mixing.

trevbushell

Cheers,
a friend of mine (in the band i play in) played the keyboard parts into the comp, (edit- i think.. he played in loads of stuff for me and I'm not sure if this ones his or not ... i think so though!) he's pretty amazing!! hes got a hammond and lesley amp and plays it like no other! its a bummer taking it around when we gig though.

the drums... partly loops which i played around with and partly me playing in stuff. the drumloop that comes in after 30 secs is a loop that ive cut up and redone if i remember rightly. i play stuff in using a master kbd, not great but i get by. i also use some of my own drumming in some of my own songs. this is one of the few songs i used loops!

I come from portsmouth in england. if you like good grooves maybe I'll post a couple of my bands live songs (recorded in pubs) on the site. we play 70's groove stuff like stevie wonder superstition and green onions etc. its a good band (12 piece with brass section) and funky.
if youre interested let me know and i'll post a couple of our live songs up. yes i do love good grooves (how did you know?)!!!

btw wheres valhalla?

oh and yes any mix tips GREATLY apreciated!! particularly how to get around that blinking cubase mixer!! thanx for youer interest tigerM
trev

trevbushell

2 of our band songs uploaded. I'm the drummer btw! hope you like it. the bumblebee song shows off the talents of our keyboard player... its just me and him
trev

Tiger M

Very nice, judging from the applause and the voice of the announcer you did a good gig

Btw, I could give you only general mixing tips, not cubase specific tips, since I never use cubase for mixing, I prefer to export everything and mix in another application. There are people here who use cubase all the time, perhaps someone could give you more detailed pointers. This section of the forum is a bit slow, so you'd have to wait a bit for someone to respond, perhaps a year...

Valhalla is not very near...

trevbushell

thanx tiger for your interest, appreciated!

yes any mixer tips received gratefully, but only if you have a little time. I know I'm crap at it so anything that will improve me even a little will help!!

glad you likd the band, its a fun hobby, we all dress up (not in girls costumes.... 70's clothes and generally have a laugh, so its good. we dont take ourselves seriously at all. they are all fairly accomplished musicians though so its good to be able to play with them, it helps you grow as a drummer.... no drummer jokes now please!!! )

"This section of the forum is a bit slow, so you'd have to wait a bit for someone to respond, perhaps a year..."
trev- LOL, this is one of my favourite threads, it is music we make with the drivers after all, so its good to listen and learn and feedback.



trev



ok... valhalla... ?America somewhere

edit... got ya....Roanoke, Virginia?

Tiger M

That's not real, I just enjoy norse mythology, that's all

trevbushell

cheeky! well, i did a google search and it came up that theres actually a valhalla in virginia!! so there you go

Tril

I listened to all your songs. I'm not a musician so I can only give you the opinion of a casual listener that doesn't know much about mixing and writing songs.

'freestyle in my slippers' : It sounds like elevator music from an old movie. Nice if you like older music style. Interesting but not the kind of music I like to listen to.

'Breeze' : It liked it a little. Some of it is nice. The piano loop gets annoying after some time. Maybe it needs a bit more variation. Some of the song reminded me of a song from a game.

'Memories of orange' : I particularly liked the strings. The drums are well played too. Sounds a bit too repetitive. The rythm is good. The instruments are well synchronised together.

'Wonder' : That song remembered me of a racing game song too. When listening to it, an image of a car spinning comes to mind. I think, a song similar to that one is played when you choose the car or when you watch a replay. I don't remember which game that is. The main piano loop is fast. I felt a bit dizzy while listening to it because the image that came to mind was a camera spinning around an object very fast. It's good and bad that it does that. It's good that this song can trigger a visual memory but it's not so good to feel your head spin.

'By hook or by crook' : I don't really know what to say. It's a song that does not catch my interest. I don't like that first 25 seconds. Listening with headphones, I thought that I heard something that sounded like background static. Sounds like you used a plugin to increase the high frequencies and add echo at the same time but it sounds like static. With speakers it sounded like something thin vibrating. Later in the song, I think there may be too much differents sounds at the same time. Maybe it's just me. Don't take my critics too seriously.

Your two live songs are nice. I particularly liked a lot bumblebee. It's full of life and energy.

My favorite song is bumblebee. I don't know if it's intentionnal but the sound on that song seems more panned to the left than the right. Most people, me included, prefer their music centered in the middle of both front speakers. I can't give you any good tips on mixing. I'm no musician.

trevbushell

Thanx very much tril for your indepth comments, really helpful! i appreciate your time taken to listen!

breeze- piano loop... mmm yes I'll have a look at that and see if it needs removing at points. i guess i tend to use a point (like the piano) and enjoy building up on it, but maybe i need to ensure it doesnt become too repetitive when i do this with songs! thanx

wonder- i love your analogy of a racing game song!! very funny... This song was me playing around with some arpegio's i made, i used filters and oscilattors to do this, just a bit of fun, but i kind of really liked the outcome. probably personal tatse though.

hook or crook.... yes your right its too full, but i know thats cos I'm terrible at mixing, so its not because of too many instruments but because its badly mixed andinstruments are not placed well! i'll listen to that frequency thing and see if i can hear it and remove it... I am a drummer after all so I've probably lost alot of my high frequency hearing cool thanx for your honesty.

THe live songs- they are recorded from the mixing desk by our sound engineer when we gig, so they are probably panned to the right a bit, he basically routed the mix to record it and didnt really take interest in what the mix was like!. gives an idea of our band tough! glad you like it!

Thanks again for your input,

trev

radiocolonel.it

... GOOD JOB TREVBUSHELL!!!

My preferred ones are: WONDER... so hypnotic and Feestyle in my Slippers since is really close to the kind of music i live!
Keep it up!!!

trevbushell

thanx, comments appreciated.

trev

trevbushell

one song added to tracks... completely made by lemurys Asynth apart from drums...(wow, what a synth!!) its the one called Asynth (strangEly!)
TREV

horsesarevermin

Hello Trev,
I have really enjoyed listening to your tracks. Your live band sounds awesome - your drumming is superb. Have you got any gigs in East Sussex coming up?
Your KX recordings contain some really great ideas, keep up the good work! Your mixing ain't as bad as you think it is, the more you record, the better your understanding of frequency masking and sound placement will come. I bought a handy little book about mixing techniques for £5 the other week to refresh the knowledge I've forgotten in the years since doing production at college. When I get home from work I'll dig out the title and the ISBN number for you, it's really handy and easy to follow.
I also have to say that you directly insipred me to post some of my KX recorded tracks, after reading your message on this board last week. Thanks!

Best wishes
Tom.

trevbushell

HORSESAREVERMIN- thanx for your warm comments tom, much appreciated. i see that dont live too far from you!!! thanx for mixing tip, would love to hear what this book is thanks! did you hear my last 'asynth' (lemurys dsp synth) track i put on this a.m? i think the mix is better there so maybe i'm getting better!

thanx also for band comments, its a fun band to play in, i love groove as you probably guess from the tracks!! they are all really good musicians so its good to play with them all. Ive been drumming a while and have done a bit of pro stuff too which really helps to improve your skills (when your drumming/practicing every day for 2 years as your job you cant help to get tight and improve!)

gig wise, we normally play in southampton pubs, weddings etc, no gig lined up at the mo but we are organising a gig soonish in a pub there and im trying to get one at the wedgewood rooms in portsmouth, so will try to remember to let you know!!

re; posting our tracks- yeah i think its great to have such a wealth of expertise to use and comment on our tracks, anything to help us improve!

good to talk
trev

horsesarevermin

Hello again,

Right, that book I as going on about is called "Basic Mixing Techniques", by Paul White. The ISBN number is 1860742831.

I've found it usefull in refreshing my knowledge forgotten since doing courses in sound production. It's great for newbies and intermediate home recording enthusiasts alike. I pickeed it up from my local Ottakars - I am not trying to product place honestly, I'm not related to it's author, and I don't work for a certain bookstore!

I listened to - and really like your new track. Do you happen to be a fan of Boards of Canada? It certainly mad e me think of a few songs from their 'Music has the right to Children' album. All I can really say is superb! Your mixing sounds pretty damn good to me, perhaps the hi-mid frequencies need boosting, but that's just my picky ears for you! I'm listending to it again, Man! this a fantastic little track, if only it went on longer...

Just noticed your new new track "Smooothmp". Is brilliantly mellow. Nothing at all wrong with the mix. Top stuff!

Good work Trev!

Regards,
Tom.

trevbushell

thnx, smooth is not the whole song! just a couple of clips of the song to show the high sound quality you can achieve with kx and soundcard on a computer. i do think my mixing is a bit hit and miss though, but i am getting better, so thankx for your encouragement
trev

ive not heard any boards of canada stuff.. will check it out though!thx

thnx for book ref, i will get it!
warm regards
trev

Russ

Sorry for the late reply, but I tried to listen to the songs a few times spread out over a number of days, to try and get a better feel for the songs.
First let me say that it is not the style of music that I like (it is a little too mellow for me). It reminds me of music from old TV show's which isn't bad, it is just not something I am into.
I got bored with breeze and wonder pretty quickly, I like instrumenetal songs to be a little more dynamic (i.e. always changing like it is telling a story).
The rest of the songs faired better, and I kind of liked Memories of Orange.
The live band stuff, especially bumblebee was really good.
I also liked the clip from a song, and would like to hear the rest of the song, and/or other similair material.

-Russ

trevbushell

thnx russ for your honest opinion! good to get diverse views from different people.
i do tend to build a song from an original idea and layer diferent sounds to build it up, i guess thats how i create a "story". maybe though it can sound a bit repetitive thoguh.... i'll have a look at them and try to get some more views on that... thnks

i think your definatly right with wonder, abit repetitive, although i do add stuff in over the song and have a 8 bar break... maybe need to look at that.


did you hear the song created by Asynth? that definantly wasnt mellow- was that one more to your taste? i need to develop that one still as its just the start.

RUSS"also liked the clip from a song, and would like to hear the rest of the song, and/or other similair material-"
TREV-i do have other songs but was a bit unsure about putting them up as i didnt want to crowd the forum with my stuff!!! ive got a dance one thats 2 yrs old but i still like and some others. if you want to listen im happy to put them up on the site, as long as people dont mind
thanks again russ for your input.
trev

Russ

Regarding your asynth song, I think it has potential. It is more to my liking then the style used in breeze and wonder, but I do not think it is complete as of yet. If you could somehow combine the style used in the 3 songs togthether, I think it could have interesting results.

I think our taste in music is quite different, so our "story" ideas are probably not the same. I like songs that make transitions such that it is *almost* a completly different song. i.e. it may have slow parts, and fast parts, and make various changes throughout the song, but then somehow pulls it all togther at the end to make it one complete song. Additionally, a lot of my taste revolves around the guitar, so most of the instrumental stuff I like is guitar related. If you have a chance try listening to "Icarus' Dream Suite" by Yngwie Malmsteen, and you'll get more of an idea of my taste.

-Russ

trevbushell

yeah got it... im not such a big fan of guitar stuff, more into eklectic, electronic synth based stuff. i guess we're worlds apart! really appreciate your input though it all helps to keep me from staying in a box musically(if you know what i mean)
i will have a llook at that band out of interest
trev

Russ

You know, the more I listen to the asynth one, the more I like it... That is why I usually listen to a song a few times before I comment about it, but I didn't have a chance to do so with that song. Isn't it funny how songs can do that.

For the heck of it, I gave Breeze and Wonder another shot as well, listening closely. With Wonder, I like some of the stuff you are doing, I just think it is too repetetive I guess. As for Breeze, there is a lot of good stuff going on in the song, but the thing that stands out the most, is that piano line that repeats over and over again throughout the song. It takes away from some of the good stuff going on in the background. That might just be a mixing thing, and a different mix could give me an entirely different impression of the song. In any case, I hope I am not annoying you with more feedback than you really wanted .

trevbushell

no no.... i really like the feedback thnx, i'm not the sort of person who shys away from constructive criticism.... it helps me sooo much in my songwriting! the more i get the better!!!

yep your definatly right about breeze. im going to look at that restructure it so piano is not all the way thro. youre the second person to say that in this thread so youre spot on with your critique!! i do really like this song so its worth another go at it i think.

i would have a look at wonder too .... but to be honest id rather move on and write new stuff with all the stuff ive learnt about mixing and kx from this forum!!

asynth is def a priority as i like the idea of it and ive had good feedback from others in the lemurys "Asynth" thread inb dsp section. thnx for your feedback on that.

thanx for you time and input russ

trev