er557

is there some way of disabling eax support completely so games cant detect it at all?
(since it's not supported in the driver anyway)
thanks!

drumphil

bump.. this has always puzzled me too. anyone??

Russ

One possibility is to lower the Hardware Acceleration for audio playback (although you should leave it set to full when not playing the games).

Maddogg6

If I knew what 'Settings/Driver Compatibility/ Filter all EAX Requests' did, I would suggest trying that... but I don't, so I won't

drumphil

Why do things like this allways have to be such a fucking mystery?? Stuff like this isn't explained in the documentation, and I have never yet successfully got an answer to ANYTHING that can't be pointed to in the docs. What does it take to actually get an answer from Eugine? Why does it feel like we're flailing around in the dark guessing, when there IS someone who actually knows the answers. Other things like how to use the b2b, and other plugins, and which DSP's they actually work on. How I am I EVER going to figure that stuff out if its not in the docs, and questions never get answered.

I'm no noob, I'm a competent techie and coder, and I allready use the KX drivers for recording and mixing music, and I'll be stuffed if I can get the info I need to know whats really going on with some of this stuff. What chance does the average KX user stand?

So does anyone know

1) who actually REALLY knows the answers to these questions (in particular why KX reports EAX capabilities in the drivers when it has none, and the EAX filtering option doesn't fix it, breaking directsound+EAX applications that detect this automatically.. Why the hell would it be designed like that??)

2) How the hell I contact them? Ovbiously they don't spend much time on the forum here. Consult the docs + guess hard seems to be the only way to figure anything out round here. If its not in the docs, we guess, and thats it, it never gets settled. The eax issue is a prime example. The driver reporting EAX when it has none just seems plain dumb, so why can't anyone even get an answer as to why its setup like that, let alone how to change it?

This thread has had 725 views, and all we have for a few months gone by, is a couple of posts that haven't settled anything.

So, WHO THE HELL DO I ASK AND HOW? or do we just have to let it go and come to terms with the fact that we'll never know? I can't believe that NO-ONE knows the answer, so would it kill em to tell us?

Where else can I ask? I'm posing in the 3D audio section of the KX forums, and I can't get an answer. Not even a response from anyone who actually really knows. Do I have to put it in the general section so people will see it?

edit: ok, so that was a rant... oh well. I had a long day.

Maddogg6

First off - I feel your pain... I have a few un-answered questions as well... but..
Lashing out in a post like that isn't going to get E. motivated when its *time* - or lack there of, thats the real issue (you have a full time job too I presume - and kX is *FREE*, the only $$$ he would get for kX is just donations - and maybe experience from kX for a better job that would demand more of his time I could imagine as well - I speculate)
Hes just one guy who did do what a team of devs failed and still are imho.

1) kX was never meant for gaming - it started off as an ASIO driver when CL didnt have one... but the flexible DSP and superior ASIO performance compared to CL drivers is what keeps me using kX... not for its superior game sound. We use kX in spite of the various bugs relating to gaming - and bugs related to Win Vista, ASIO and DSP *have* been getting attention instead (limited time and resources)

2) Send E. a PM - but because it is EAX related - I would not be surprised if it gets ignored - or a response of 'dont use kX for gaming.... perhaps your problems is because of Win Vista in the more recent versions of kX - if you use WinXP - maybe use an older version of kX I still use 3538M becuase I like my Multimedia KB to adjust system volume - which was broken in 3539 - tho some work around exists - I have no reason to upgrade kX at the moment.

Just my opinion - I would expect problems with DX10 games - or ones that require Vista - with the drastic changes to how Vista handles sound.

Perhaps a complaint to the game maker *not* to auto detect EAX may get better/quicker results - or at least - *they* have *teams* of devs that could possibly patch that game some how or give instruction to deiable EAX...

Oh - did you try reinstalling the game *after* turning on the 'filter eax request' options in kX options? Maybe they only detect upon game install?

what I dont want tho - is that - lashing out deters E from doing *anything* more with kX in the future - he may feel like his hard work goes un-appreciated - would you continue if you put your self in his shoes.

Again - no body will ever tell you kX is perfect - but for making music - its better than the original devs - you must think so otherwise you would be using CL drivers...

If I were a gamer - I would be motivated to have a PC set up *just* for gaming - but I couldn't afford it - so - like mony people, I have to make a decision - Primarily make music or play games with the PC i have - most here chose 'Make Music'.... and live with the various downfalls of gaming with kX.

Russ

As I stated before, the only thing that I have noticed that seems to prevent EAX detection is to turn off hardware acceleration for audio playback. I do not have any games that use/auto-detect EAX, so I have not tested it with such games, etc, but I did notice with the RightMark 3DSound Positioning Accuracy test that the EAX options are not available when hardware acceleration is off...

As MD6 stated, your best bet is to send Eugene an email (use the "contact us" link on the kX site) and ask him directly if there is a way to tell kX to report to such applications that EAX is not supported.

Maddogg6

Oh.. try re-installing the game after turning off hardware acceleration ...

Detection *could* possibly be done only upon install in the case of some games..

Russ

More Info:

You should not have to disable hardware acceleration altogether, setting the hardware acceleration slider to the "Standard" setting should disable EAX.

(from WinDDK docs)

rfxcasey

Well you have a guy who says he knows how to code asking for at least enough info to dig into it himself. Why is there only ONE person working on this project. Is it free but not open source? A lot of good that does all of us.


This may be true but I bet if you took a poll of who used it for what you would see that many many people use it for gaming as it is a better choice in some situations then the WDM drivers which not only don't work but are no longer updated. I paid 250 buck for my SB live platinum and the hardware is the same as the day I bought it. Creative labs has to motivation you to buy their latest crap somehow so lack of support seems to be their weapon of choice. I will probably never buy a creative product again because of this.

That's like saying only use your corvette for driving really really fast, not for picking up groceries or going to work every day. Ok sure it may be geared towards one use more then another but that doesn't mean it won't work just as well for other purposes not to mention this would make me believe that is Eugene guy is anti-gamer. Then let someone else in on the project to work it out and make it a better overal solutions. I mean this is like cutting your own balls off or saying this is all I will ever be and there is no room for improvement.



Lets get real here, everything is Vista and DX10 and making money to these companies right now. They really don't care for the most part. They are interested in making money and fixing a few peoples EAX issues is probably not no. 1 on their plate. They will most of the time just tell you to use the Windows certified drivers (which don't work either).

What? So, what your saying is if I can afford a high end gaming system it can not also be a musical production tool? All you really have to do is throw a high end video card into anything decent now a days and it will handle gaming. The hardware is so integrated on the video cards today and so much of the processing for gaming is done on the video card that I don't see why one can not integrate their own PC and get the best of both worlds. Ok maybe noise from fans either electrically inducted or just being captured by your mic but any real home studio is going to have a seperate recording booth for sound and with most everything moving in digital format I have really not run into any problems with electrical noise bleeding into the system.

Just my 3 cents.......

Max M.

oooh, i can't miss this topic - as the most rude "anti-gamer" here (as you name it) i wish to bubble too

Yes, and there're reasons for this (you can find details elsewhere here)

It does not matter how many of such people are using kX. It's their choice - no one forces them to do so. Most of them installed kX just yesterday as a workaround and tomorrow they will uninstall kX as soon as other workaround comes out - There's no reason such mayflies should be a higher priority than a users who used kX for years, participated in testing, development and whatever else support (and it is well known that the gaming is not a higher priority for them).

I don't think this has anything to do with the statement you quoted ("kX was never meant for gaming").

It's a common mistake, many people think that the goal of the kX developers is to catch as many users as possible, or to solve whatever problems of whatever people, or to provide an ideal replacement for the Creative software ("the same but better"), while the only goal is developer's own fun.
So (despite the fact that personaly i think the opensource way would be nice) this makes me to ask you "Why would Eugene let *someone* in?"

What makes you think that people behind kX are not going to make a money of the gamers too?
(E.g. the gaming features are limited intentionally).

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rfxcasey

So, keep the intellectual property rights and have others help on the project. Then the owner can filter the work done and carried through to the actual release. This way you still retain control while improving progress. If this project is some kind of a resume for a job, I as an imployer my take this more as the inabiltiy to work with others, utilize availible resources, think progressively and focus on creating a better product rather the only thinking of personal goals and reward. I'll tell you one thing that would not look good is thumbing your nose up at a market demand or customer satisfaction as an excercise in for real world lucrative pursuits.



Oh no you didn't just use the old "Wa Wa, it's your choice." defence did you? Way to form a constructive dialog. You know it talks in the Bible about "Men not open to any agreement". This basically automatically makes you stuborn, contentious and combative. This is like saying my car is rated for 93 octane, but I can only find gas stations that carry 87 and 89 so I make the choice to drive my car or not. It is not so much a choice as a necessity. That doesn't mean that if I could find 93 somewhere I would still buy your crappy gas. But if I can't I can only appeal to sometimes ignorant and unresponsive people to think about maybe carrying some premium.



This once again points back to a need but a lack of options.


A much better question is what kind deranged egomeniacal anti-social outcast wouldn't let someone in, given they would have to be the right people.


Hum, ok first off there are really not a lot of "gaming limitations" as you say, just a little room for improvement. Secondly, wouldn't this contradict the mission statement that says the KX project is "free" and will always be "free"?

You also made some statement about mayflies and jonny come latelies or something like that. If the only way you can feel better about yourself is to give yourself props for being involved longer you need a reality check. Everyone that was even born after you is a P.O.S. and should be killed because you came first. Yes everyone after you has 0% integrity.

And if the point of the project was only to have fun why would you have a forum and offer support for others, including gamers, or even publish your project on the web in the first place making it freely downloadable if you didn't want others to benefit from your work.

By the way I am not some hardcore gamer and use my PC for audio production and productivity, however when I do play the ocasional game I like my soundcard to work well. Is there a freakin problem with that? You sound like a major a**hole.

I rest my case...

Russ

I think you missed the (WINK), indicating that he was only kidding...

Open source is not possible for much of kX due to a non-disclosure agreement with Creative Labs...

Max M.

No, not really. It does not prohibit same people to come up with a commericial gaming oriented software named "kY"

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