SEVERE problem with 9600 performance

stoliD · Aug 23, 2003, 11:48 AM

hi guys. listen out to this one. i got an 1700+ and gf4mx460 with a 3dmark01se score of 5800 points. i now upgraded to a 2400+ and a radeon9600 (non-pro however) and thought to come somewhere near 9000 or sth with this combo, i actually end up 100 points less than my old system, 5700!!! How the heck can that be? Please help....

Chaos · Aug 23, 2003, 12:03 PM

WEll it would seem there is a problem here....I list of your system components would be a big help....

I would uninstall your 9600 and all ATi software

Then I would make sure there are no traces of your old Nvidia files left anywhere....
(try Driver Cleaner), then if you are comfortable with regedit, go have a look to make sure there are no folders from nvidia left over....

then I would reboot and do a fresh install of the ATi drivers and Control Panel

stoliD · Aug 23, 2003, 12:12 PM

ok listen up,

athlon xp 2400+
ms-6511 mainboard
512mb sdram
9600 radeon (non-pro)
winxp pro sp1

--------
i know the sdram is lame, but still y is it now slower thatn with the old gf4mx and the slower cpu (1700+). After removing the old GF4mx, i uninsatlled the nvidia drivers, and also used the DriverheavenCleaner to remove everything that was left, as well as cleaning the registry. I then put in the new Radeon9600 and cleanly installed the stock (not omega) 3.6catalysts..... Shall i go for a complete new WinXP PRO install?.. the 5700points are nothing but lame, and i sure havent payed 200$ for 100points less of performance....im gettin mad...

Chaos · Aug 23, 2003, 12:28 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by stoliD
ok listen up,

athlon xp 2400+
ms-6511 mainboard
512mb sdram
9600 radeon (non-pro)
winxp pro sp1

--------
i know the sdram is lame, but still y is it now slower thatn with the old gf4mx and the slower cpu (1700+). After removing the old GF4mx, i uninsatlled the nvidia drivers, and also used the DriverheavenCleaner to remove everything that was left, as well as cleaning the registry. I then put in the new Radeon9600 and cleanly installed the stock (not omega) 3.6catalysts..... Shall i go for a complete new WinXP PRO install?.. the 5700points are nothing but lame, and i sure havent payed 200$ for 100points less of performance....im gettin mad...

I kinda thought I was listening but I was just not hearing all the info until now.....

If you don't have mission critical stuff on your system then hell ya go for a clean install, why not, it only takes an hour to get back up and running after fdisking your drive

stoliD · Aug 23, 2003, 01:05 PM

alrite clean install... be back tellin what i get after it...

stoliD · Aug 23, 2003, 07:25 PM

alrite, i did a clean install. put on the chipset drivers (via hyperion 4.49p2) the catalysts and still have ~5700.... man somethings terribly wrong here.... i use the newest 3dmark01se (build 330)... any ideas what could be wrong?!....

Chaos · Aug 23, 2003, 08:39 PM

Ok so the next thing would be to look in the ATi control panel and make sure that the Direct 3D section is set to performance and all the sliders are moved to the far left....

Next go to the SmartGART and see how the card is displayed

4x or 8x AGP

Fastwrite On or Off ? MAny people have trouble with fastwrites enabled so I would try it on first then off the next time.....also make sure u disable it in the BIOS to make sure it's off and enable when you have it on..

Report Back !!!

stoliD · Aug 24, 2003, 05:38 AM

alrite, first of all i'd really like to thank you for your help so far. Now the details, i pushed every bar i could see to the left (performance), have AGP 4x (my board cant do more than this) and Fastwrites Enabled. I now have a score of 5986... which is 200more than before but still.... its a shame.

I looked at some technical details and recognized my 9600 has a MemoryBandwith of 6,4GB/s whereas my old GF4MX460 has one of 8,6GB/s... coz of the faster ddr speed. Still i think the 9600 is a brandnew dx9 chip with vertex and pixelshaders the GF4MX460 did not have and the score is pretty depressing... I tried runnin some games and they dont look smoother now...

When i also take into credit that im now runnin a 500mhz faster CPU than before, this makes me think the radeon9600 is SLOWER than a crappy gf4mx460 in the end... can that be?

update: with fastwrites disabled and increased agp aperture setting to 256, i get 6009points...23more...

still any ideas?

Chaos · Aug 24, 2003, 07:23 AM

Dude I am at a loss right now, unless the VIA KT133 chipset and SDRAM is causing a major bottleneck, the 9600 should be comparable to a FX 5600 not a GF4 MX460. Do you have access to another system to test the card in.....

Also have you done a comparisson using 3DMark03, 3DMark01 is more CPU intensive where 3DMark03 focuses pretty much on the GPU instead....

You may want to have a look @ this article and perhaps hold off judgement until you can possible upgrade your motherboard and ram

stoliD · Aug 24, 2003, 07:33 AM

what to do... no other system to test in... well even if 01 is cpu-dependent it should be much higher with a 2400 than with a 1700.... fuck, 200bugs for nothin... any clue who else could help???

**Roadee** · Aug 24, 2003, 02:42 PM

You really do need to run 3DMark 2003.......that is very intensive and your card should score pretty damn good on it. Without having another system to throw your vid card into......it is the only way I can think of to test your card.

Also......did you install XP......then SP1.........then latest MB driver's.......then Dx 9.0b......then video drivers.......then the critical updates?? Just curious on this one.

With your cpu and vid card, your score for 2001SE should be around 7,000 to 9,000, and with DDR memory and a better MB it should be 9,000 to 11,000. So either the vid card is bad....or your MB is causing conflicts and not being able to handle the increased through put. Only thing is.......the only real way to tell is either put your vid card in someone else's computer......or put someone else's vid card in your comupter........both would be better. Any way it goes......you need to find a way to test that vid card.

***Veridian3*** · Aug 24, 2003, 03:20 PM

Hi,

I've been running a 9600 non pro in my main PC between reviews over the last couple of months and with my 2600+ i was getting about 8800 with no tweaks and best image quality so there is something well wrong with your setup....i'm just not sure what!

Can you check the clockspeeds of your card to make sure they are correct (should be 300/200) and also try the omega drivers just to make sure its not some mad driver issue.

Have you also checked the processor is running at the correct speed...i can't find the MS-6511 on the MSI website but other sites seem to say it doesnt support the 2400+

Stu

Chaos · Aug 24, 2003, 03:27 PM

So far anything I can find says the board will take up to a 2000+ maximum unless there is a new bios tha allows it to take more CPU's

Here is a link to a pdf of the board is this the correct board??

Here is another one, was it a PB PC

Here is a thread on a Packard Bell website that you may want to follow also

FluffyChicken · Aug 24, 2003, 03:37 PM

Benchmark the card's in the games you play. Only real way to find if there is a difference

go here http://www.h-oda.com/
get the WCPUID program, to check your CPU setup

Also given the 9600 is numbered inbetween the 9700 and 9500 then it should be about GeForce4 Ti4400/4600 speeds (which are almost twice as fast as the MX460).

Also to test it's not the CPU, put the 1700+ back in and check the difference.

Chaos · Aug 24, 2003, 03:46 PM

Also do you have the FSB set to 133MHz or 100 MHz ??

FluffyChicken · Aug 24, 2003, 03:58 PM

Personally I think it is a motherboard limitation with the CPU, Especially if it's a Thoughbread as opposed to the Palomino's

Here a hunting a bios out...
hum...
Found one http://www.pbnec.nl/support/drv/cat114.html

Luck be have it v1.5 on there adds AMD Athlon XP Thoroughbread support

Is this from a Packardbell/NEC computer. If so hit there support pages

Shadow Lady · Aug 24, 2003, 04:37 PM

Im not sure, but someone told me before that via kt133 chipsets had problems with ati Radeon cards

stoliD · Aug 24, 2003, 04:52 PM

hi there. ill go for your questions. Yes the MS-6511 does support the 2400+. It displays on booting as a AthlonXP 2000mhz, WCPUID shows the same, an AthlonXP model 8 with 2000mhz 15*133.... So far the CPU seems ok, i also notice performance increase in cpu-intensive applications like encoding stuff....

So far the card seems to be the problem. BTW on 3dmark03 i got a score of 1600 which is pretty bad for a 9600np. I also use the newest BIOS v1.5 thanx anyway for this hint. I tried with and without the VIA-tweaks from George Beese, the newest VIA hyperion - no change in perfomance.

And i cant seem to find any solution. Im really pissed. I tried without smartgard (so that agp reads and agp writes are always enabled) coz smartgard always seemed to disable agp write. Still no change. I turned off every shadowing or caching in bios, tried every aperture size, agp memory is recognzied correctly i tried with the nvidia agpmem-tool. Hell i wasted 2 days on this issue now...and am pretty pissed.

Thanx a lot for all your answers guys, keep them coming i bet (well hope) there is a simple solution i just have not come to yet....
who says there is a problem with kt133a and radeon chips? I wrote mail to ati-support... waitin for an answer...

now a FEW ODD THINGS I NOTICED, for u guys to know. First the CPU ran pretty damn hot (80°C) with the boxed cooler (in my OPENED case), i changed to a better fan and it now works - strange as boxed cooler should work but ok - solved.
SECONDLY, when tryin to intall the newest omegadrivers off driverheaven.net/downloads (rad_w2kxp_omega_2474a.exe) they say *you are trying to install drivers for a card which is not supported* ... only the stock 3.6catalysts work fine with me....

maybe this helps.... btw, i just want to let you know how happy i am to be part of such a great and helpful community!!

EDIT: got the omegas to work, they run but slower than stock atis, o/cin is not possible with this card also. and i found THIS LINK http://service.futuremark.com/compare?2k1=6906708 its a benchmark that fits my quite good setup (well its an intel...) and has the same score. in the description it says *9600LE w64bit memorybus*. i then panically checked mine with AIDA32 sysinfo but it says i got a 128bit memorybus. Well i also payed for a 9600 (not LE and not PRO), and also have never heared of an 9600LE before....

FluffyChicken · Aug 25, 2003, 04:13 PM

Think ATI maybe your best bet. They should be able to tell you what card it actually is

As for KT133a chipsets I don;t know... Anyway you have a KM133 chipset (not the much different btw, but newer)

Just a thought it maybe the integrated (onboard) graphics card interfering...

Suggestions. Dump the ATI, get a comparable NVIDIA based card FX4200/4600 or Ti4400/4600 (although yours being none pro maybe leower end. I don't know not looked at benchmark for card in a while....

Have a look through the Catalyst driver documentation for known issues....