The "piracy as demo" fallacy

IEMC

The hell?

Mousey

lmfao to be honest i agree, this guy's got the right idea
I earn £13.50 a week right, it can get me the occasional game in a bargain bin or a bargain of ebay or amazon but tbh it's not really enough to get any new releases.

Saving up's fine i spose but when you've got a game sat there in a shop and you're dying to play it but you know you have to wait 4/5 weeks to get the cash it kinda gets a bit frustrating, at which point you hit a torrent site or w/e.

And when i've only got this much cash coming in i have to decide, do i buy a gamecard for WoW, a bargain game, go to leeds/skipton, go get drunk with my mates or do i save?

Make games cheaper and piracy's gonna lower, and actual store sales will increase. it's the plain and obvious truth.. Eitheir that or make digital downloads cheap as chips like some games on steam

BlueMak

I remember how before the digital downloads arrive, how everyone on publishers/whatever were saying how this will make games cheaper because there is no printing of manuals, no boxes, not even CD/DVDs, not even shop front etc etc. Guess what, they lied.
Case in point, the otherwise very good Gamersgate, game Y in the USA $29.99, in the EU at least 29.99 euros...plus, no box not anything.
But why is there piracy? more DRM MORE MORE!!!
idiots.

YAYitsAndrew

Oh please, kids today! When I was little I was able to buy a game during my birthday when people gave me money. Other than that I started mowing lawns at 13 for money and then had a job at 15. I sometimes would save my allowances over a few weeks and even skimp on my lunches by not buying fries and other extras to collect the money for games.

That's just how it is as a kid. If you can't convince your folks to buy you a game or they can't afford it you have to take matters into your own hands. I remember to get Earthbound I had to take a loan from my grandma. I paid her back 10 dollars a week until I paid off my debt.

Never did it cross my mind to steal the games.

SFOSOK

I buy mine at the store, rip the cd's and keys out and throw away the artwork and box. If its a steam game then I register through them but never buy it online or download anything illegally.

OmegaRED

The answer is clearly to earn more money or find a new hobby. Game prices are fine, compared to other forms of entertainment. I don't often buy games but when I do they usually provide hundreds of hours of worth of value (BF2, MoH series etc).

Zelig

I earn $1350 a week right, it can get me the occasional car from the used lot or a bargain of ebay but tbh it's not really enough to get any new nice sports cars.

Saving up's fine i spose but when you've got a sweet ride sat there in a shop and you're dying to drive it but you know you have to wait 4/5 years to get the cash it kinda gets a bit frustrating, at which point you hit a gang for a "hot" ride or w/e.

And when i've only got this much cash coming in i have to decide, do i buy a luxury credit card, a used Mustang, go to Cuba, go get drunk with some upscale escort service or do i save?

Make cars cheaper and piracy's gonna lower, and actual dealer sales will increase. it's the plain and obvious truth.. Eitheir that or make new cars cheap as chips like some cars on ebay

Zelig

Only in the US/UK.

I tip well, but I hate feeling obliged to give tips, so to give myself leniency, I tip bigger for good service, and less for poor service. What really bugs me are restauraunts where they automatically add a set percentage to your bill to count as a tip, whenever this happens, they never get any extra tips from me... just make the damn food more expensive.

Yeah, a little off topic.


I don't think it's so easy to separate people who download software/movies/music from those who buy illegit copies from the local market. The main difference between these two groups are technical ability, the average person has never used a torrent before, while on the other hand, any random person can purchase from a street vendor a movie that just came out in theatres for $5, to pop into their DVD player.

I think this is also part of the reason for the mass piracy of PC games. The audience for hardcore PC games are the exact same people who tend to have the knowledge to steal the games.

Cow_160483

Ok this is what I have to say on the topic at hand. We can sing about it "till the cows come home" haha just a little humor, but the fact is that we all have to search our conscience and try to do the right thing which is: buying the dam games.
I mean come on people we all know steeling is wrong so why do it? Think of all the people who take the time to make these games do we want them to stop? here in Botswana where not many people are hardcore gamers. its really hard to get good games for PC's we have to drive really long distances (800km) to go to South Africa and buy the games we want but we still do so, SUCK IT UP and stop bringing down the whole industry by pirating and get the OG (original) shit.

Mousey

Precisely

BWX

I am surprised this didn't get knocked into the FWZ.

BWX

Oh wait.. I AM as bad as this guy-

Mousey

that is fricken awesome

Callandor

This isn't true, especially the 800 km part.

botswana - Google Maps



In fact the citizens of this country are probably more proud than South Africans themselves, South Africa has an unemployment rate of, what, 40-50% and an oppressive corrupt government that only steals from its people and has been doing so for the past 15 years, I'm not from Botswana or anything but having lived here (in Gaborone) for quite a while I feel an obligation to defend it. I'm surprised you can say this after what this country has done for you.

RSOblivion

Wow aren't you the goody two shoes.

Not everyone has such a lovely work ethic as you, plus with you lovely moral highground I doubt you feel like you can be knocked off it. However there is two sides to every story.

Shall we start with the decline in the end product (point 3 I believe). It is obvious that over the last few years deadlines and budgets have rendered many a game without balls on release. This led to endless patching (because with the internet this was a lot cheaper than delaying 3 months of sales) and pretty pissed off consumers. This also happened around the time that pirating games became mainstream, partly as a counter to buying shit that wasn't finished (hell WoW still isn't finished ), partly to supply to those who couldn't afford it, and mostly just because it could be done.

Those who download, copy and the sell the copies I totally despise. They are the scum without honour. Those who download and use well, chances are they have enough knowledge to do so and wouldn't have bought the game in the first place (counter to the lost customer bullshit, which is totally invalid when you check the big companies profits...).

Does anyone actually read the EULA before clicking OK and using the product? Well if they did they would find (in the more obnoxious ones which are now most of them) that a) They have no legal right to use the product they paid for, b) The company who made it doesn't guarantee that it will work or that it won't melt your computer, c) That if you don't agree with their terms then you are at fault! Thats the funniest bit. You have to agree to terms you have no control over, then they assume its a contract. LOLOLOLOL, that is absolutely contradictory to contract law btw. SO if you really want to get on the legal bandwagon you could start with the profit raping of teenagers (main target audience but adults and younger kids are there too) through misleading advertising, making minors agree to contracts they have no understanding or knowledge of, etc....

Personally I couldn't give a rats arse about piracy, its gonna happen no matter what, but if you make a product that is quality and fairly priced, you'll find piracy of it is minimal. There will be t-shirts, cups and other merchandise too (all will be copied for a fraction of the price in China) which will compound the profits off the original game. Yet they complain that they didn't make as much as they could have because a bunch of people bought the fakes.

The thing I hate the most though is those who believe through their (allegedly) high moral levels they have the right to decide what is right and what is wrong (when the options are not black and white), then foist their opinion on others. That is far worse than any piracy and its committed on a far grander and more deadly scale than computer software. Just think imagine if the criminals ran the country what would it be like..........

OmegaRED

Omg Pirates...just stop already, the moment you drop even one excuse you lost the right to be taken seriously.

That means no "games are worse quality", "are released in a buggy state", "are too expensive" or "copy protection is too invasive" arguments.

It's as simple as some people who are short on cash will steal a game rather than buy it. Do this enough times and it becomes habitual, then pirates realize they can buy other stuff (like pc hardware) with the money they saved on games and it keeps going on and on.

RSOblivion

If you read that point properly, I stated the main reason pirating occured was just because they could do it. Not the other mitigating factors.

I would like to ask a simple question then. In the case of MMO's where you pay per month who is stealing from who? really it should be pay for time, rather than per month, then it would be close to being fairer, but still raping the public over and over for the same old shit, which btw they seem to be quite happy lapping it up from the silver platter. Personally I can't understand it any more. I did play WoW for a while for instance, I wish I hadn't wasted the time and the money now. The only good thing was when I played with my mates, and even then it ran thin.

Though using MMO's as an example shows the success of PC games over consoles in a region consoles could never even hope to go yet.

Its ironic and easy to forget the days of PS and PS2 game piracy, hacked consoles and such (which are just as prevalent with the current machines as the older ones) allowing the use of burnt media instead of original. Even more ironic when you consider the gaming base of the PC is over twice the size of the console base and they still complain even when there are profits in the hundreds of millions for a released game. The profit chasing has got to a point where it is simply absurd and that impacts on the consumers in a big way.

Over here a new release is likely to cost $100. In the UK its about 30-45 quid. The earning ratio is not the same though. The average wage is lower in dollars than pounds in the same period (a week for instance). Meaning that the cost is actually over double that of the UK. So why on Earth should we pay double for the same product? Mainly because if it was done on earning ratio, people in an affluent country with half a brain would order a copy from a not quite so affluent country. Then you have the all the problems of regions and region piracy, etc...

As you can see there is far more that underlies the issue than the mere want to steal. Or the whim of an impoverished guy who has a computer powerful enough for Crysis :s

Oh and by the way you are making a massive mistake thinking that any of the currencies actually have any real value. Seeing as all current major currencies are all debt instruments rather than credit instruments (ie it's an I owe U rather than a gold coin), its a little hard to use the concept of monetary theft as it is valueless and backed by nothing, hence the rather self destructive economies.

Of course this was all thought of before this discussion occured wasn't it

YAYitsAndrew

It took you that long? I lost faith in the rebuttal the second he said WoW isn't a finished game.

WoW is a platform for delivering multiplayer content. By adding new content, they can justify asking a monthly fee from people who play. They also, of course, have to maintain balance which is significantly more important in multiplayer games than in single player games. In a single player game, if you find an exploit, you only cheat yourself by using it and if you're cool with that then so be it; no one is going to be bothered. Online, however, your actions can effect the enjoyment (and willingness to pay Blizzard) of others.

Do you think Halo 3 isn't finished because they keep releasing new game modes and maps? I guess by this silly definition Starcraft is the only finished game in existence. Or did a patch come out last year?...

The rest of what you said just strengthens what I said earlier. People pirate games because they can and they won't get caught. Here it is again, I'll just highlight the parts where you repeat my point almost exactly.

The attacks against me personally I will ignore since this is a topic about game piracy and not YAYitsAndrew. Let's have a clean debate. Let me briefly adress my motives, though. I'm offering a voice of reason against piracy. Listen to what I say and decide for yourself if it makes sense or not. I know I can't change the world through some forum posts.

I'll never understand how people read a forum post and think anyone is "forcing" an opinion or anything else on anyone. It's your choice to read and agree or disagree with anything on the internet. I'm sorry if I'm presenting a point of view you don't believe in and that somehow offends you.