Subwoofer Size?

topbob

Sup guys, I'm moving into a new room where I can play music with as much bass as I want, finally, and am looking to get a new sound system. I've got all the other parts figured out, but am unsure of how big a subwoofer to buy. Originally I had planned on getting a rather costly Klipsch Synergy Sub-12, which is 600w.
My new room is only 8ft (2.4m) by 14ft (4.27m) however, and its been brought to my attention that this sub might be a bit over-kill.
Any suggestions on wattage/brand of woofer I should get?
Thanks

IEMC

Over kill? Never

kris23

if you have enough bass to end up puking from the vibrations like i almost did, then its overkill.....

but my family may be moving soon so i think i may need 2 z-5500 systems to do that.....

with the new room anyway....

Judas

You can't really overkill with that,

Simply adjust the volume lvls to match the room...

Now if you had say 2 22" 3000 watt subs in that little room,,, that would be overkill

Vikingod

Watch your hearing, bass is murder on it.

mike2h

i dont think he is so much asking about overkill, but more along the lines of does he need t ospend that much $$ on a sub for that room & the answer is no.
is this surround or stereo? how efficent are your speakers how much power do they get? if surround, how many speakers are truly full range(can produce viable bass down to 30hz)?
all that aside, something with a a good 10 or twin 8 in the in the 200 -300w range should do you fine. stick with klipsch as i assume that is wha tthe rest of your speakers are. otherwise look at m&k or velodyne.
one thing, almost everybody has to much bass, if well balanced fidelity is what u are after then stick with the range i gave u(depending on some of the info above of course). if u like to thump hard then go somewhere in between.
one other thing unless they r well made/designed, big subs(12 or bigger) dont always give you better bass. a well designed(power req being equal)10 will give you tighter bass than a average/cheaper 12.

Necrosis

I highly recommend this guy: BIC Acoustech H100

Judas

Personally i love the 10" and a 15" sub combination

The 10" is there for the nice kick, and the 15" is for when there is a pile of air to move

The stereo i setup at the farm is a prime example of what sounds damn good but isn't overkill yet.

No sub woofer (though it would add a bit to it)... but the cabinet speakers did good enough.

Starting from the floor up times by 2 (one for each side) stereo only IN a 12x12 foot room with 8 foot ceiling.

15" Low (ported)
12" Low (not ported)
8" Mid (ported)
5" Mid (not ported)
3" High (ported)
2" High (Ported)
1 1/2" Tweeter (not ported)
1" Tweeter (ported)

Now remebmer that's just for one side,

Duplicate for both sides, and amp to power it up, and you get one hell of a solid full spectrum sound, low volumes are crystal clear.

The only real thing missing is like i said, a subwoofer to really push out the lowest of tones.

dj_stick

judas, there is no need what so ever for that many speaker cones, in fact depending on how you've the the crossover set up (you are using crossovers right?) you're probably losing quite a bit of clarity as the frequency response of each cone is conflicting with the others in their bandwidth

ideally you'd get a full range stereo speaker set, so the left and right speakers have a tweeter, mid-range cone, and a low frequency cone, in addition to a larger size sub for extra low-end presence

but any way, most computer audio systems don't work that way, so here's a little advice: the larger the sub cone size, the more trouble it has pushing air, so if you want a "tight" low end, get nothing bigger than 10" or 12" cone, maybe a little smaller if your room is only small, and won't have it too loud

however if you just want bass for the sake of bass, and you're not too fussed about it, go for something over the top if you want

mike2h

fkn judas lol. the sound coming out of that has got be a horrendous mishmash of massive overlaps, cancellations, conflicting tonal qualities & i dont even want t oknow about crossover design & cabinet build.

TOPBOB- chk this out, should give you most info u need- Velodyne

Judas

I agree it is overall on the excessive side (but the room is designed in such a way to fill the rest of the house which is a few thousand square feet), but it is no less, impressive sounding, Right from the classical type music that has those huge drums that you can really feal right up to the "zizzle" of the voilins and the chimes that have a nice "ching" to them. Very well balanced.

There is actually 3 sets of crossovers being used in the setup, each of which have thier own seperately powered feed, It's "old" stuff doing it. Nothing "digital", just straight up true analog right from amp to the crossover to the cone. Best yet is the AMP is a Tube/Silicon hybread heavily modified. The clarity is so high that depending on the source media, "artifacts" can be heard if it's been mastered improperly. Nothing a little filtering can't solve if tuned well enough.

Either way, they are tuned in such a manner that bandwidth and responce really aren't a concern.

Yes typically, hell even the Z-5500 speakers do very very well at what they do with thier unique tweeter/mid single speaker design and thier 10" sub that produces the full range very well. But i guarantee you, it won't fill that house like that other stereo does.


as i had mentioned previously, the smaller sub (8 or 10", 10" preferrably) is more easily able to diliver the quick thumps relatively with ease and very accurately. Where as the larger you go, the more tuned they are to better diliver the lower tones and fail at dilivering the slightly higher of the lower tones.

The amount of air a 15"/17" or larger cone moves is impressive, however the amount of power required to drive them properly is even more shocking. Many of people have royally screwed thier amps that weren't able to consistantly cope with the demands. (or worse, burst into flames with the cheaper amps, with sticky breakers). The sound they produce, more vibrations then sound, are worthy of remaining. From beautifully constructed and orchastrated melodies and music right down to the nitty critty action movie explosions that litterly rock the windows outa the house.

For the roomed mentioned in the orginal post, a 10" sub is plenty, and 5.1 surround sound is still easily obtainable that will sound just as excellent. Essentially the Z-5500 logitech set would fit in that room very well and more then fill it. So something around the similare specs of the Z-5500 and it's speaker setup would be reasonable enough.


IMO a good stereo, a clean good stereo, when all setup properly will sound so good, that you won't be able to know how loud it actually is until you try to speak. When you can't hear yourself, and the volume isn't really all that noticeable (yes you know it's getting loud, but not that loud until you speak and realize holy crap, i can't here myself at all) then you know it's some good quality stuff there. Alot of the terrible stereos have a tendency to sound harsh, even sickening at higher volumes as they while may not be distorting badly YET, but are not producing the clarity needed to sound "right".

This of course is all "IMO"

mike2h

you know what judas, if u truly enjoy your sound system(i think it very poor design but jmo), then more power to you. it is something i tell everyone- buy up to what you enjoy. not over. most peeps dont need to spend thousands of dollars on a sys to get sound they enjoy. & everybody has a different concept of what sounds good(why so many spkr companies can survive).
anyway, if it makes you happy then its all good.

Judas

No someome DOESN'T need to pay 1000's for a good system that sounds good..

it's proven by the number of people that seem to have a fetish for being displeased with alot of the horrible sony/pioneer/etc system being sold for 700+ that sound like crap and have little to no options worth mentioning let alone zero inputs. (5.1 in one box units)

They simply don't know what's available.

As i stated, a Z-5500 system will typically beat the pants off any component system that someone can throw together @ over half if not better the cost. Have twice as much output power and undoubtably surpass in every benchmark available.

The system setup at the at home is well, if it were brand spanking new would be definitely thousands of dollars and probably wouldn't sound nearly as good (they just don't make speaks like they used to for the dollar).

Thing is if you do enough garage sale hopping, some of these speaks and cabinet units even amplifiers can be gotten for litterly nothing. You just have to know what your looking for.

My father and I have an ear for distortion and oddities in music. We are picky as hell, if there were problems with the audio at all, we would have know emediately, but the fact is there isn't... and presenting mastered music/audio through the system to studio proffesionals has further strengthened what we do know about audio to be true.



Yes everyone has thier preferences, but many if not everyone will agree when they've heard it, that it's by far one of the best sounding systems they've heard.

The point i was trying to make above is that depending on what the application is, the various types and sizes of speakers, ported and non ported work in tandem with each other IF properly setup with the right crossovers in use and built within the right cabinets. Each differing size speaker is capable of producing a better frequency/tone of audio then another. This is very evident in Subwoofers using various size cones ranging from 8" and up.

Hell the little labtec 4.1 speaker set that i got way way way back in i think around 2000 if not earlier proves that even the 3" cone will produce a wide varraity of sub tones, while having kick in specific tones, and completely lossing it in others. Gradually increasing the cone produces better tones at specific ranges in those frequencies. The as you bring in more speakers with more varying sizes of cones PROVIDED they are setup and crossovered properly, will produce and even full wider more precise range of frequencies and tones.

The larger the cone the more air it moves/lower tone it can produces/more power it needs to properly reproduce. The smaller the cone the higher the high tones it can produce/usually requireing even less power.

From what i've also heard, is that "horns" typically produce the best "high" tones vs standard cones.


Also, alot of people think something sounds great, until you show them something that is properly setup and well balanced. Then they usually (if they aren't to stubborn to realize) that there own setup is all that great. AND in some cases, have requested that we come over and make adjustments and recommendations.

I'm NOT saying more is better. Not more is not always better, never is, Specially more of the exact same thing is just being rediculious.

And example is that some people are setting up 2-3 12" subs in thier cars and trucks and thinking it's freaking awesome. When after thoroughly testing, we've determined that a single 12" in these vehicles has produced far better results, (and less strain on the amplifiers saving power in the long run)

Another fact is that in home living rooms (provided the room is large enough) that with 2 subwoofers across from each other or mounted in the right manner can produce an even more incredible theater experience.



Doesn't matter what anyone says, I've been pmed, i've been called a liar and whatnot constantly on these forums for various topics, some of which may be just a proffesional disagreement. That's fine, But i'm not full of bullshit here.

Lowfat

That is entirely incorrect. With cheaper drivers maybe, but with quality speakers even an 18" subwoofer can create 'tight' bass. Enclosure size, subwoofer placement, crossover, and room size also play a huge part in how the subwoofer will sound.

Necrosis

Sorry man but there is just no way. Unless these systems are being setup by someone who doesn't know how or you've have heard a decent setup. I'd throw any one of my three setups against those including my well aged Klipsch Pro Media's. Heck, some of the high end Creative line that is no longer being made would also wipe the floor w/ them.

Zelig

Yeah, the Z-5500 are a good set of surround sound speakers for gamers running from $250-$300, which is what they're marketed as, nothing more. Even the Logitech Z-10 speakers sound better musically at lowish volume, asides from lower tones.

Judas

I've come across some poor Z-5500's....

had to send them back..

so i'm going to have to say that you've likely ended up with one of the poorer ones.

The Z-5500 are marketed towards that of computers.. and sold with the idea that they are "only" computer style speakers which is very much untrue..

they produce a level of quality that surpass that of majority of componenet and packaged 5.1 units available.

I AM NOT SAYING they are the best, i said the majority, AKA the ones that are being sold most. Easy to setup units by non pros. ETC.

I'm saying that the z-5500 typically wipe the floor of the units that are being sold by sony/pioneer/etc for 700-1500 bucks that can't touch the z-5500's lvl.

I've a set of the logitech Z-10's.... that's debateable.

topbob

o_o whao thanks a lot for the very extensive replies, this really helps me out.
Stereo, (although they're Klipsch SS.5's made to be used as surround channels, but they sound great as stereo satellites to me) They're in a 140w amp so I'm guessing around 50w each
Thanks again, I'll check over all this info again and look around.

dj_stick

that really depend on what you class as "tight"

the larger sub cones, due to their size/mass, simply cannot respond as quick enough for some genres of music, sure they're fine for home theatres, and creating rumble and 'low frequency effects", but at least to my ears for music, they just don't cut it, and muddy up the low end too much

Judas

I agree with DJ about the larger size cones,

it's basic physics, the larger the amount of air and the mass that needs to move, the slower it is at reacting, or the more exponetial power it needs to respond similarely as quick.

The smaller subs like i had mentioned 8-10" produce a very distinctive sound that is very very tight usually, the bigger ones are much better for the frequencies and sounds that best meet what they can produce. Using the 2 in conjuction produces some pretty incredible sound.

mike2h