The debate religion thread!

narwal · Feb 7, 2008, 08:49 PM

What matters most to me? On the surface, this would seem an easy question. Were I inclined to take the question unseriously? Based on my experiences, I found the answer quite revealing.

With the advent of personal computers, waiting times no longer seemed to be an issue – users came to expect computers to respond immediately. The Web, however, is one of the reasons that waiting times did not disappear into the shadows of history.

The lack of functionality can constrict you in several ways: In its severest form, it can prevent you from achieving your goals, or put simply, you cannot make the application do what you want it to do. As a simple example, think of an application that doesn't let you select several items at a time and perform an action on them, such as Delete. As a result, you have to carry out the procedure for each item separately. This is particularly cumbersome if procedures consist of several steps.

It's a bit like the old wisdom that your car has to have four wheels before you can drive it.

Maddogg6 · Feb 7, 2008, 09:24 PM

I think I understand your analogy... and would like to point out that - a car, is a mode of transportation - and is most popular - but the truth is... a motor cycle with only 2 wheels is more efficient in several ways.

Then theres the bicycle - thats even more efficient with only 2 wheels...

My point - all because its popular - doesn't make it the best thing for *us all*. Considering those with big cars tend to drive like they own the roads.

OmegaRED · Feb 7, 2008, 10:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by narwal

What matters most to me? On the surface, this would seem an easy question. Were I inclined to take the question unseriously? Based on my experiences, I found the answer quite revealing.

With the advent of personal computers, waiting times no longer seemed to be an issue – users came to expect computers to respond immediately. The Web, however, is one of the reasons that waiting times did not disappear into the shadows of history.

The lack of functionality can constrict you in several ways: In its severest form, it can prevent you from achieving your goals, or put simply, you cannot make the application do what you want it to do. As a simple example, think of an application that doesn't let you select several items at a time and perform an action on them, such as Delete. As a result, you have to carry out the procedure for each item separately. This is particularly cumbersome if procedures consist of several steps.

It's a bit like the old wisdom that your car has to have four wheels before you can drive it.

I don't know what the fuck you're talking about. You in the wrong thread maybe?

Maddogg6 · Feb 7, 2008, 11:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OmegaRED

I don't know what the fuck you're talking about. You in the wrong thread maybe?

*I think* he was saying 'if it floats your boat, theres nothing wrong with your religion, and those without religion are doomed to failure'... in a difficult to follow analogy.... ??? maybe I'm wrong... but I'll first assume the guy isnt all that whak... it seem to work with what I read (or at least I have heard my interpretation said before)

so I continued with his car analogy to refute him... ??? - if he is whak - erm, its kinda funny coincidence... ???

OmegaRED · Feb 7, 2008, 11:30 PM

I dunno, it was a stretch when that one guy used Windows comparisons now this other guy is using the web and cars. FFS, quit with the riddles and say what you mean.

Russ · Feb 8, 2008, 01:28 AM

lol, "all powerful" leaves no room for debate, or logic, and allows for any contradictions.

Could God create some indestructible object?
- Of course, he is all powerful...
Could God destroy this indestructible object?
- Of course, he is all powerful...

hmm....

Maddogg6 · Feb 8, 2008, 01:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Russ

lol, "all powerful" leaves no room for debate, or logic, and allows for any contradictions.

Could God create some indestructible object?
- Of course, he is all powerful...
Could God destroy this indestructible object?
- Of course, he is all powerful...

hmm....

great point. thats the typical circular logic with those who don't even think about what they say, or been told... but then again, how many religions actually promote 'thinking for thy self'... ? few, if not *none*.

OmegaRED · Feb 9, 2008, 06:03 PM

I'd like to hear from Christians and non Christians (especially in the UK and Europe) on their thoughts of the Archbishop of Canterbury's comments about adopting Muslim Sharia Law.

BBC NEWS | Politics | Williams under fire in Sharia row

Also, I came across this Channel 4 video which shows the abuse Christians suffer at the hands of Muslims in Egypt. It really is quite appalling how badly Muslims treat unbelievers in their own countries yet demand to be treated fairly in Christian cultures. Western countries always give in yet the Muslims don't reciprocate...I think it's time our leaders put their foot down and stood up to Muslim bullying.

YouTube - Egypt ; Treatment of Christians 1 of 3.
YouTube - Egypt ; Treatment of Christians 2 of 3
YouTube - Egypt ; Treatment of Christians 3 of 3

Show details here:
Channel 4 - News - Egypt's Rubbish People

Zelig · Feb 9, 2008, 06:17 PM

The archbishop is a nut, but it's not as if he's particularly relevant in Britain, so it doesn't really matter anyway.

I can't see the sharia law thing going over any better in Britain than it did in Ontario.

edit: And FWIW, as many Muslims in Britain oppose Sharia law as those who support it.

edit2: And should have posted a source for that, here's some pretty graphs and stuff: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/grap...aria119big.jpg

OmegaRED · Feb 9, 2008, 07:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zelig

The archbishop is a nut, but it's not as if he's particularly relevant in Britain, so it doesn't really matter anyway.

That's not what I've seen in articles posted on other forums, they show an emerging trend of Muslims demanding the UK conform to their beliefs; it's political correctness gone bad.

Quote:

edit: And FWIW, as many Muslims in Britain oppose Sharia law as those who support it.

I hope so, the Muslim population in the UK is rising quickly eventually they're going to have much more say in these matters. I don't understand why they'd go to Britain if they didn't want to be a part of a secular society.

Maddogg6 · Feb 26, 2008, 12:26 PM

Chat11.com: Hamtramck Michigan Islamic Call To Prayer

This town used to be refered to as 'Pol Town' - from the large number of polish immigrants - now, the muslim call for prayer is also heard.(the

'ALALALALALALALALALALALALALALALALALALALALALALALALA LALALALALALALALALALALALALALALALLALA'

The arguments *for* it is; If a church can have bells that 'tells time' - so can a mosque. Tho it seems a PA is more economical solution for Islam ??

Most non muslim, athiests included, would find a church bell less audibly offensive - as it is also a tribute to our liberties (re: Liberty Bell).

When I am at home, I *like* the sound of a bell - I get annoyed at sounds of loud/obnoxious people however. Be it a hoedown, an auctioneer, or a call to islam prayer. We can safely assume the first 2 would never be imposed upon us here, certainly not 5 times a day every day, but the latter????

I hope the local church here stops ringing their bell - as much as I *like* it - I dont want it to be used as the justification like in Hamtramck.

Esaz666 · Jul 21, 2008, 05:39 AM

i`ve not being around these parts for a while
but anyway , i have enjoyed reading this thread,

It is pointless to try and define god into a human idea of god,
we can only negatively define it by our own terms,
God ( which as a term is loaded by 1000's of years of misinformation )
can only be experienced and not defined.

The books our cultures have created with devine revelation,
have to be viewed in respect to the culture they come through,
as the vessel (person) can only explaine things in their own way - can only see through their own cultural viewpoint.How can a person describe
something other than things known unto them.

To dismiss religion is an inteligent thing to do, after all we live in
a scientific age, but we as people with our very limited capacities
can only try our best to understand.

Love is the key, forget about the label , islam , christian , hundu.I myself have the greatest respect for people trying to live a good life, belief is usefull towards that but not essential. When we leave our current incarnations, it would be usefull to have some idea of what we would be aiming towards.Religion can only point the way, it is not the answer.

I could tell you of experiences I have had and continue to have ,they are relevent but require belief, this is important, were you to beleve me would that make you gullible and easy for me to exploit?, why trust in anything that cannot be proven?, trust and you could start to really learn something about existance or just remain closed within the limit of your ego's understanding, it doesent matter which choice you make,we have much time to learn.

We are all one with the spiritual force of the universe and part of it,
I have only experienced this reality, but again i see things in my own way,
trust what i say or don't , just live a good life and treat others with the upmost respect , that is all that really matters.

OmegaRED · Jul 21, 2008, 09:22 AM

Quote:

It is pointless to try and define god into a human idea of god,
we can only negatively define it by our own terms,
God ( which as a term is loaded by 1000's of years of misinformation )
can only be experienced and not defined.

I disagree, man created God and anything man creates can be defined as well as destroyed.

Once we strip away our imaginary friends and institutions created to worship them all we're left with is reality. I don't think love is the key to anything, this is just too wishy washy for me and totally unrealistic in any sense.

Mousey · Jul 21, 2008, 09:26 AM

Apply basic physics and you've just dumped on christianity.
Because heaven is supposedly in the clouds, the atmospheric pressure would make it freezing cold all day and even colder at night basically unsurvivable temperatures. Also you can't have any fun because all you can do is pray.
Hell however, is down by the earth's core (apparently) which again would be unsurvivable but i think i'd rather burn up quickly than freeze to death up in the clouds.

Sinning, again a load of bs.
If alcoholism is a sin, why are people given wine in churches. (It happens a fair bit up in skipton, i've seen blokes come out of a church on a morning swaying, i'm there pretty early for my pk training.)
Adultery is supposedly a sin, why are christians of some branches running round having a fuck load of kids with people they don't know?

If religion is about love, peace and acceptance; how come gays and lesbians of any kind (or bisexuals for that matter) are shunned from the church and called devils/scum?
More people have gone to war in the name of god, than they have for political issues such as money, or oil. George Bush began the war on iraq because it was "the christian thing to do", i believe it clearly says in the bible Thou Shalt not kill? If you want a reason to be a hypocrite, just say you're a christian.

digerati · Jul 21, 2008, 11:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OmegaRED

I don't see why Link would care about the Catholic church as that's not his religion.

[rant]If God wanted me to believe in Him then He should not have given me the intelligence to be a critical thinker. Would He not want us to be intelligent enough to be wary of false prophets and those claiming to know the word of God? Surely God would speak directly to people if he wants to convince them not by proxy. Remember, it's only a Revelation when you hear it, after that it's just hearsay.

If God does exist I think he'd be ashamed at the sheer laziness of his followers. At some point in your lives a parent, priest, rabbi, imam or teacher told you that God exists and you believed it. Until then, you had no belief but accepted the first God that was offered to you. Just once, I'd like to hear about someone that spent most of their life searching for a God and gave all faiths proper examination before making a decision.[/rant]

Yo.

Sandok · Jul 22, 2008, 02:47 PM

HOLY S***, this thread is still alive? Noooo!

Esaz666 · Jul 22, 2008, 05:17 PM

LoL-its never ending!

The man created god, is a product of belief, if that is what someone holds, then that is all he has - belief, a product of the mind.
but there is a force within the universe, a force , call it Ch'i energy - it is a conscious form of energy , this is what can be experienced.

OmegaRED · Jul 22, 2008, 05:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Esaz666

LoL-its never ending!

The man created god, is a product of belief, if that is what someone holds, then that is all he has - belief, a product of the mind.
but there is a force within the universe, a force , call it Ch'i energy - it is a conscious form of energy , this is what can be experienced.

Stop talking crap.

You realize you sound like some sort of Jedi wannabe?

Esaz666 · Jul 23, 2008, 05:07 AM

no worries, I did not expect you to consider my statement in detail,
I hope you are at peace, but it is good to remain open to new ideas.
There are things that people in everyday life and science do not even
approach , i dont claim to know, i have just experienced.

It is good to know that religion and the spiritual are not one and the same,
I do remember talking about these subjects with you before, maybe a few years back but i allways very much enjoy the debate

It is also good to seek knowledge that you yourself can discover, most knowledge we take for granted in our western culture is borrowed , ie- someone else's, who's to say that it is precise, the scientist (who may work on behalf of a big corporation or drug company), the politician, who do you trust to be truthfull?

OmegaRED · Jul 23, 2008, 09:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Esaz666

no worries, I did not expect you to consider my statement in detail,
I hope you are at peace, but it is good to remain open to new ideas.
There are things that people in everyday life and science do not even
approach , i dont claim to know, i have just experienced.

It is good to know that religion and the spiritual are not one and the same,
I do remember talking about these subjects with you before, maybe a few years back but i allways very much enjoy the debate

It is also good to seek knowledge that you yourself can discover, most knowledge we take for granted in our western culture is borrowed , ie- someone else's, who's to say that it is precise, the scientist (who may work on behalf of a big corporation or drug company), the politician, who do you trust to be truthfull?

I trust the scientific method over unproven and unreliable "experiences" that people have. In matters of spirituality and God there is no knowledge available for you to seek, it is unknowable and anything you do discover is pure imagination.

digerati · Jul 24, 2008, 03:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OmegaRED

I trust the scientific method over unproven and unreliable "experiences" that people have. In matters of spirituality and God there is no knowledge available for you to seek, it is unknowable and anything you do discover is pure imagination.

There is no knowledge available? I'm sorry, but there is lots of information and knowledge available, it's just not the kind of knowledge you're willing to accept because it can't be proven in a way you find satisfactory. Yet I'm sure you're willing to just accept a few things because there are no explanations for them. For example, why are you alive, when the atoms you are made out of, are not.

Sandok · Jul 24, 2008, 09:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by digerati

Yet I'm sure you're willing to just accept a few things because there are no explanations for them. For example, why are you alive, when the atoms you are made out of, are not.

There are explanations for that... An atom is the building block for life, and for everything else so well, let me put it this way.

Most buildings are made of bricks and together, they form something called a house for example. Individually, they are nothing but together, they offer shelter, insulation, structural support, etc. Same with atoms, alone they are nothing but when put together correctly, they use energy for mouvement, reproduction, etc, which is defined as life

digerati · Jul 24, 2008, 12:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sandok

There are explanations for that... An atom is the building block for life, and for everything else so well, let me put it this way.

Most buildings are made of bricks and together, they form something called a house for example. Individually, they are nothing but together, they offer shelter, insulation, structural support, etc. Same with atoms, alone they are nothing but when put together correctly, they use energy for mouvement, reproduction, etc, which is defined as life

That still doesn't explain the difference between a chair and a human. Both are made of atoms, both are only their unique thing because of their exact structure/buildup, but one is alive and one isn't. And science can't really explain why, and they can't make a life on their own, they can only clone something that's already living. If it was simply a matter of just putting atoms in the right order, you'd think they would have done that already.