Is there a place for capital punishment in modern society?

cozumel

In the modern civilized world should anyone still receive the death penalty. I say no, except maybe for convicted paedophiles who have actively engaged in sexual activity with childrens.

Mousey

UK Prisons are absolutely full of people that are convicted of stupid crimes like speeding, as a result there's no holding facilities for murderers, imo removing them completely from the UK would free up space in prisons.
I say for murder in the uk, bring it back

Zelig

No place for it.

Morally, I have no problem with the death penalty for murdurers, but because of the inperfect justice system, either innocent people get executed, or, as is the case in the US, it costs more taxpayer dollars to have someone executed than it does to leave them in prison for their entire lives.

Would have to drop out of the EU for that to happen, EU countries aren't allowed to have capital punishment.

Maddogg6

I am one with a philosophy that - over crowded prisons are a symptom of a problem and not the problem its self. Killing a prisoner is like taking pain medications - it may feel good for some for a short while, but time and time again, its proven that the problem still exists and another prisoner will simply take their cell quicker than it became vacant.

In a word, I believe the problem to be mass depression.
Now, add a little desperation (bad economy, on going wars) and I think you have exactly what society sees now.

Why do people speed, why do people kill, take drugs, drink and drive etc... - it all boils down to an 'I don't care' attitude that gets that criminal ball in motion - and what would cause some one to take that attitude? Depression, to me seems most obvious.
'I know I could spend the rest of my life in jail, but I'm gonna do it anyway' If thats not the talk of a depressed person, what is?

Zelig

Repealing the death penalty, or applying it like Texas across the entire US would have little effect on overcrowded prisons; it only applies to a very small percentage of the total prison population.

cozumel

I suppose the question I'm really asking is:

With the exception of paedophiles should a modern criminal justice system in the civilised world be used to punish offenders or to rehabilitate? If it is rehabilitation then where does the death penalty fit in?

Zelig

I don't see what makes pedophiles special, why should they be treated differently than other criminals, as long as they're treated appropriately for the crime?

There's no place for punishment in a modern justice system. The justice system should be trying to strike a balance between deterence of future crime, and rehabilitation of criminals.

Judas

if capital punishiment came back, alot of jackasses that are running rampant out there right now would sure straighten up quick...

better yet, instead of going to prison, send them directly into military camps.... (which leads to another location..... )

Maddogg6

Maybe some... but, from what I read - theres no *real* reductions in crime rates in states with the death penalty - perhaps its because they take soo long to process (and rightfully so, we do need to give a chance to eh hem 'prove their innocence' - as it *has* happened that someone on death row were exonerated by new evidence), maybe figure they will deal with that day if/when it comes - but its certainly not like a 50% decrease in crime.

cozumel

A small part of my job is to help convicted paedophiles to re-integrate into society. They are the only client-group I do not like working with although I still try to support them to the best of my ability and believe I offer everyone, regardless of my own internal opinions, the best possible service. Unfortunately, from the evidence I have seen, paedophiles cannot be successfully re-habilitated. It is a sad if unfortunate reality.

Maddogg6

Isnt that true also for *most* criminals. (as I hear most are repeat offenders)

A question.. if just 1 person is falsely accused and sentenced for anything- do you feel the system is broken? Or just that 'its the best we can hope for' ?

Other than a death sentence - what other ways are there for dealing with 'repeat' offenders of any crime?

Mousey

In the UK prison is like a symbol or "school" for young criminals, when they come out they're regarded as heroes by the fucking retards they call peers.
Perhaps if it was regarded as a "finishing school" we'd have a lot less OAPs getting beaten up for their embarrasingly small pension?

OmegaRED

My vote: Let em hang

I support the death penalty only in extreme cases where rehabilitation into society is impossible and/or there is an admission of guilt of the crime. Examples include serial killers, terrorists and extremely violence sexual offenders.

Innocent people have put put on Death Row and been exonerated therefore I could never support the death penalty in cases where the person pleads innocence. If there is even the small chance an innocent person could be put to death that's unacceptable. They can do society no harm in prison and during that time can make efforts to prove their innocence in court. Overcrowding and costs are not acceptable reasons for the death penalty.

cozumel

There always will be miscarriages of justice in cases where there is no cast-iron evidence available and where the jury has only reached a majority verdict as opposed to unanimous. I do not feel the system but do feel that there insufficient resources made available to the system to successfully rehabilitate offenders due to the lack of political will.



Please clairify this question. Do you mean the death sentence for repeat pick-pockets, pimps or the distribution and supply of controlled drugs for example?


Post Traumatic Stress Disorder is one of the most debilitating illnesses imaginable and can lead to suicide in the worst case scenerio. A significant number of clients that my agency attempt to support suffer from PTSD whether caused by being a war veteran, refugee or a child who has been abused psychologically, emotionally, physically and/or sexually. These children are often have lost childhoods and go on to be 'troubled' adults requiring intensive therapy. Why should we place children at risk by releasing convicted paedophiles back into society when it is almost impossible to treat them. Our children deserve better. Emotional trauma to a child tends to have much more long lasting effect when compared to that of an adult.

For clarity: I have been in situations where I am unsure if I will make it out in one piece. I feel fear and I get sad and occasionally shed a tear privately away from view when someone dies (last week was one such occasion). Some people do not feel the emotion of killing and to them the act carries the same significance as you or I going to the convenience store for a bottle of beer. But an adult gets over things. I do. We develop coping mechanisms. A child may not have learnt these techniques. A peadophile tends not to feel or understand the traumatic impact of their actions and may not always be aware that it is wrong. That is why they are so dangerous.

This post is too long, has probably bored you and is has deteriorated into a ramble. I apologise but felt that a more detailed explanation was required. Not really sure I made snse though...

Maddogg6

I'll assume you left out a few words that I added and underlined...
Ok - that sounds a lot like - 'its the best we can do' - Ill add - 'for what ever reasons'.

Yes, it seems you got it... only - thats *not* the death penalty.

So, what are other ways to deal with repeat offense convicts - say we do have more resources put to rehabilitation of offenders - how do you feel it should be spent?

Matth

What DO you do, for a crime so abhorrent, and a criminal so far beyond redemption, that they can never (or at least should never) be released?

It's either the death penalty, or literally lock 'em up and throw away the key.

Maddogg6

no, you forget prevention....

first. put more emphasis on prevention - THEN increase the penalty. (I'll explain why 'wait' below)
For instance - between the internet (and kids not being monitored) - and (mental) health care costs sky rocketing - its no wonder there would be an increase in occurrences.

We (in the US) spend WAY more in taxes to 'liberate' those in other countries, and a pitance on helping low income families (who feel forced into having a 3rd party raise their kid while they are working their second job)
I believe it is felt in the uprise in school shooting too.

My point is, kids pretty much raise them selves now, and are often put into the 'care' of those that will never care about the kid as much as a parent. Then add in, previously abused children that never get the cousiling they need to properly heal to become 'a valued citizen' who work as teachers, or child care givers.... and you have a screwed up person with the potential to continue the snowball effect of abuse.


Why did I say wait to increase punishments....
Consider this case that *does* happen too frequently.... (My sister had a neighbor who went through this, eventually the girl admitted to it and spent 3 months in jail for it) google: 'wrongly accused of child abuse'.
Schools teach children that they can make a parent/step parent powerless if they claim abuse. My friends kid used to use that threat to get what he wants. (his kid is in jail now)

So - if we kill, and lock away the key - do you want to be the one who is wrongly accused? No, first we have to fix other problems before increased punishments are 'just'.

I never said the answer was easy but, If we go and start adding to the list of capitol crimes where will it end? Stealing (takes income away from feeding their children)? tax evasion (not paying monies that do go into social programs that benefit kids)?
Eventually we *could* justify killing for any crime committed that 'affects children'.

If you truly dont believe in 'criminal re-rehabilitation' - is it the criminal or the services provided to rehabilitate? (will a jail cell, and an order to stay away from kids do the job, obviously not, there are obviously mental issues that go un-addressed.)
Does the state pay the same for psychiatric care as say, your insurance (if you even have coverage)? not from what I hear...

edit:
With stories like this, no wonder 'rehabilitation' has been difficult..
Ex-Florida prison boss: Drunken orgies tainted system - CNN.com

I have no doubts that, while the above is probably an extreme example, its not completely outlandish to wonder how much happens elsewhere? Just more subtle. Point is, if the guards are even remotely corrupt, how does one get rehabilitated in prison?
(the threat of returning prison in itself <> 'rehabilitation', and the US advertises not just 'crime punishment' but rehabilitation as well)