I hate russians

Brutality · Apr 28, 2007, 02:52 PM

K, first thing I would like to start, is appologising to those who might feel offended. I'm not a nationalist nor racist but the last few days and things that's been happening in my country has made me really really mad.

There are/were huge disturbances in our capital Tallinn and all of them started because of a stupid war monument called the bronze soldier. It's a monument built by communists who freed Tallinn from nazies. But after freeing Tallinn, communists occupied our country and a new occupation began. To celebrate that they built that monument. There have been buried some unknown soldiers but it's not sure.

So, all of this started last year when Russian community started celebrating 9th of May( the date of freeing Tallinn ). There were disturbances between Russians and Estonians. The veterans remembered their fallen mates and that hard battle, younger Russians just came there to get drunk and brawl and Estonians didn't like celebrating the communism. The whole year there were talks about what's going to happen next. Our government wanted to remove Aljoša from Tallinn's downtown and set it up at the Military Cemetery where all war veterans have been buried. So, 2 days ago, they started preparing the place for dugouts. First they wanted to make sure there are any buried soldiers underneath the monument. Then they wanted to bury those soldiers to a proper place where they could have peace and then set the monument up at the Military Cemetery later, after the 9th of May. Ofcourse, everything went as wrong as it could. Russians came to "express their feelings" about digging out their brave soldiers. There were a lot of police trying to maintain order. In fact, they gathered police from all over the country. Anyways, rioting started. 2 nights in a row Russians have been looting Tallinn's downtown. There are just too many of them. But the saddest part is that all of those looters are 15-25 years old. All older people with SOME common sense are trying to stop them. I'm not saying there arent any Estonians involved but 80% of those criminals are Russians.

And ofcourse, the Russian government is getting on our nervs. They wanted to end all sorts of diplomatic relations with Estonia. The Russians think they still own them but they don't. It's a sad time for our country but this thing had to be done. I'm writing this because I wanted to ask what do you, guys ( and gals ) think of what's been happening.

Btw, our stupid government banned all sorts of alcohol being sold. I can't even get a bottle of beer anymore. A dry week is going to suck ass :P

Some videos.

***temeteus82*** · Apr 28, 2007, 03:08 PM

I know but I think that the issues that the minority Russians has to do something about their status in Estonia. It seems that they feel like they are forgotten minority in there and now they are pissed off big time.

btw. Do you know what Tallinn mayor thinks about this statue thing?? If I recall correct he would let the statue be where it is. And I think he knew what would come if it would be moved.

Brutality · Apr 28, 2007, 03:11 PM

Mayor of Tallinn, Savisaar, is a communist. The only thing he wants is pleasing Putin and he'd join Estonia with Russia if he could. He would do exactly the things that Putin likes. And on that occasion, he would let the monument stay.

Maddogg6 · Apr 28, 2007, 03:15 PM

hmm - whats going on?
it could be the same thing as when the detroit tigers won the baseball world series back in 1984 - people burned taxis and cop cars - looted - etc... and this was a 'happy' event....

Not to mention - moving the dead is a touchy subject no matter what other circumstances there may be.

Are you saying they are russian residents doing the looting and such? Or are they nationals (come over from Russia?)

If you want to be more proactive - get out there with your camera and video tape anything you can, and offer it to law enforcement to help them build cases against the looters - its the only way to prevent such things in the future - to show that THE PEOPLE wont stand for such nonsense - leaving it up to law enforcement - is like saying 'its their problem' but in fact its everyones problem , and thus everyone should do their part to help.

imo, this isnt really a 'gov't' or political thing.... its more likely a 'stupid young adult drunks' situation more than anything else... (thus the alcohol ban) ??? (maybe with political 'excuse' for lashing out??) but I can only go by what I have in front of me as Im not there to witness anything first hand.

(linked page didnt load for me btw)

***temeteus82*** · Apr 28, 2007, 03:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brutality

Mayor of Tallinn, Savisaar, is a communist. The only thing he wants is pleasing Putin and he'd join Estonia with Russia if he could. He would do exactly the things that Putin likes. And on that occasion, he would let the monument stay.

I know that that's why he knew what was coming ... Anyway your country must solve this issue and do it so that WW3 won't start! I've already got one call from our military about possible "gray" phase...

[EDIT] As our Prime Minister Mr. Vanhanen said : "Finland nor other countries do not have to get involved. As they are occurring in an area near Finland, then we will of course keep a very close eye on them."

Brutality · Apr 28, 2007, 03:42 PM

Maddogg6: Those people rioting are residents. Most of them are citizens of Estonia but there are some who don't even have a green card.

Btw, I would go out with my camera. Too bad i just live 160 km south of Tallinn. I can't see it's worth the trip to go there. Besides, our gov. enduces people staying home so police could do their work.

And yeap, the alcohol ban was set because of those drunk bastards. Too bad i have my own home-made beer keg in my basement :P 30 litres of grade-A moonshine

Btw, too bad that link didn't work for you. I guess US IPs are banned or smth. Maybe this one is better. Gives you some sense of what's happening.

Btw, Russian TV Networks are showing the worst of that rioting. They are showing and telling people that we are all nazies and we don't respect dead. It isn't so. Russia just wants to fuck us over.

***temeteus82*** · Apr 28, 2007, 03:51 PM

Estonian media sites are under load or having DDoS attacks ...

Maddogg6 · Apr 28, 2007, 06:21 PM

Quote:

They are showing and telling people that we are all nazies and we don't respect dead. It isn't so. Russia just wants to fuck us over.

how does this tie in with the russian gov't?

I would think a compromise is possible... move the statue - leave the bodies.
Or - are you saying this situation is some russian political ploy? how so?

BlueMak · Apr 28, 2007, 07:39 PM

If I remember correctly Estonians were quite happy for the Nazis to come in the first place.

Anyway, Estonia is suffering the same thing that smaller countries suffer from their larger neighbours. Good luck with that.

Brutality · Apr 29, 2007, 05:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maddogg6

how does this tie in with the russian gov't?

I would think a compromise is possible... move the statue - leave the bodies.
Or - are you saying this situation is some russian political ploy? how so?

As I said: Russia still believes we belong to them. After the USSR collapsed, we regained independence. And Russia wants to "protect their people" and something like that. I don't know what's their agenda with us. The fact is that they actually need us. Our major ports are the gateways for them to gain access to Baltic sea which is VERY important for them. So, if we turned off those channels, they'd be fucked, not us. I don't get their policy. But it's awfuklly retarded as i can say.

Link. Russian retards!
BlueMak: Estonia's fate was written down with the MRP back in the 1939. We were left for Russians. So, Russian came, told that if we wouldn't let them build their bases, they'd just force us to do it. So, they occipied the country. 1941 they fleed Estonia because a lot of Germans came in. So, Gerries, who actually behaved like rational people compared to Russians, gave us the deal: if our men fight for nazies, Germans would leave Estonia alone and give us back our independence. It wasn't so simple after all. Actually, it was an ultimatum. Help or die. So our men decided to help. There were no volunteers. There were just men who got caught between 2 bads and they tried to choose a better of 2 bads. There were also men fighting on Russian side and it wasnt really uncommon for a brother to kill his brother or father to shoot his son... History is sad, but it's true. And as I said: Russia is still pissed off we didn't join the CIS. So, i hope you learned smth from my lesson in history

mkk · Apr 29, 2007, 05:06 AM

Just don't use the behavior of the Russian government as an excuse to continue oppressing the rus population in Estonia. It's all important to separate the two issues as much as possible.

Brutality · Apr 29, 2007, 05:35 AM

Btw, did I mention that our gov didn't want to take down that monument. They just wanted to RELOCATE it to a more peaceful place. There was a press conference and they said that they'll set up the Bronze Soldier at the Military Cemetery TOMORROW. The place they wanted to take it after the 9th of May. The monument is totally unharmed. So I don't think there's any harm done...

Btw, that oppressing Russians as a minority is also kinda "resized". Yes, Estonians don't like Russians and vice versa(not all, ofcourse) but they being discriminated? Mmm...No. In fact they don't even want to learn Estonian, official langage of our country. In fact, employers don't hire almost noone who can't speak Russian. Is that fair? All were asking is for them to speak our language. We don't even suppress them because Russian schools have another programs of learning and Estonian is listed as foreign language there that noone wants to learn. I, for a fact, have been learning Russian in school for 4 years. It sucks but I know it has to be done if I want to get a job in future...

Maddogg6 · Apr 29, 2007, 10:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brutality

The fact is that they actually need us. Our major ports are the gateways for them to gain access to Baltic sea which is VERY important for them.

Ahhh - ok, now its making more sense to me...

(from that link)
'defenders of the bronze soldier plunder wine-vodka shop in Tallinn.' -lol

you are right - this IS retarded - protest by stealing booze.
Piss off the Estonians - when you need their cooperation.

Quote:

Is that fair? All were asking is for them to speak our language.

I wouldn't get too caught up on this personally.
imo, you are better off being multi-lingual - Russians will be at disadvantage for not. Just as knowing English also, I would imagine, will give you additional opportunity as well.

BUT I DO completely understand the idea of - 'your in my country, speak my language damnit!'
We have the same issues here too. But I have to say, at times I am disadvantaged for not being fluent in spanish. good or bad - its a fact for me too - and we were never 'officially occupied' by a spanish country (we are now, unofficially - ie - illegal immigrants). But I also realize, language is not the problem - its a symptom.

Brutality · Apr 30, 2007, 09:44 AM

Hi, it's me again

I'm happy to tell you that our Bronze Soldier Aljoša has been set up in the new place at the Military Cemetery and it fits there perfectly. It's much more peaceful and beautiful place.

Today, Russians sent a delegacy to our country and they demand that our government steps back and they demand setting free all those criminals who marauded in our capital.

. How stupid is that

Our people is actually happy: we have found out that our new government(we had elections in March and our government has worked for 3 weeks now.) is really capable of leading the country, our police kicks ass and people want to help them out. In 2 days 1300 people have signed up to be assistant policemen and our nation is much more stronger. I believe we benefitted more out of this incident than we lost

***temeteus82*** · Apr 30, 2007, 10:24 AM

Now they found caskets under the statue....
And I've read from the press back here that the Russian minority thinks that rioting is the only way to get them heard about issues what are concerning them. This is sign about how your government's integration policy has gone shout.. And the way how Estonians deal with this issue isn't good. So expect more riots in years to come.