Another Shooting...Another Death: At CNN Headquarters

Sandok

Populations IS part of demographic...


Perfect example? Are you even reading your posts before you press the posty button? It HAD a space development program but apart form the major cities, Russia is as poor as Ukraine or some other eastern european country... It HAD a glorious past, that doesn't mean that's the case anymore

And boy are you stuck up on Russia... Just what about France, Germany and Spain that all have severe gun control and OMG less murders than USA (not even counting gun crime that is nonexistant)! Care to comment or will you ignore this for the billionth time?

Ya, please post either links or facts to justify a statement. From what I've seen on the net and books and all, there is too much evidence to show that gun control works. Hell this thread has enough proof! Again, APART from your beloved Russia, all countries I've stated have lower gun crime and murder per capita than the US. Care to comment?

Yes they do but Coz specifically wanted you to comment on the ones who had less... Yet again, you fail to argue that point so to me, you're sorta just rambling the same stuff over and over... We got those points, we've given you links and showed you proof of everything we've said. Do the same for us now and answer our questions?

Maddogg6

So DENSITY (demographic) and COUNT (population) are the same now too??? I even linked to their definitions for your ease of reference.

Yes - so what changed there ?
AND - 1st you say they are 'developing' - *now* you say they had a glorious past - soo which is it???

I have ALREADY addressed this multiple times.

I have already multiple times -AND you admitted to NOT READING. Why would I bother typing it again - use the thread navigations.

I have already mutiple times - If you refuse yo even try to read/comprehend - well - what can I do about it?
- I wont bow out, if thats your strategy???

Yeah links to biased ANTI-GUN web sites - (Do you know what biased means?) But ignore my UNBIASED sites I linked to...

If you fail to see that; I don't want what happened in Russia to happen here - I guess - you just being argumentative for the sake of argument. I cant make this any clearer....

BlueMak

Sandok, why do you keep avoiding my example?

Greece has free (not as much as the USA but still) gun controls, compareable size and population to Switzerland and still less murders per capita than Switzerland. How is the less than strict gun controls here do not force the murder rate to scy rocket? Also Greece has a large (for its size) number of immigrants (like USA) perhaps even close to 8-10%.

Stop ignoring whatever doesn't suit you.

Dyre Straits

Since I'm the author/originator of this thread (originally posted in Off Topics, no less) I have been keeping up with the heated debate going on here. I normally don't venture into this area of our forums but, due to a new article in the Atlanta Journal/Constitution that I read just a little over an hour ago, I felt compelled to weigh in and add some more for people to 'chew on' in this debate.

Several people have argued that guns make it easier to kill a person and, without access to guns, there would 'assumedly' be less killing as it would cause people to think longer about what they're about to do.

I really can't accept that argument at all. It seems to me that once a person decides that they want another person dead, it's only a matter of time before they act on that decision. They've already crossed a threshold and, in most cases at least, there's no turning back.

Read this article from today's AJC:



In this article we have very similar circumstances where a man wants "his woman" dead. The original post I made resulted in a man taking a gun and shooting "his woman" in broad daylight in a very public place. This current article shows that the man used a knife to kill "his woman" also in a very public place.

As an American citizen, I personally don't want anyone messing with my inherited right to own a gun. I'm not saying whether I own one or not. BUT, I have the right to own one LEGALLY as a citizen of the USA. I don't want that right voided or amended or otherwise removed from our rights as citizens.

What I DO want to see is better enforcement of keeping guns of any kind out of the hands of those who are NOT LEGALLY within their rights to own or possess one.

BUT, as this latest article shows, even those who either cannot get one, or have no access to one, WILL USE WHATEVER MEANS IS AVAILABLE to do harm or kill someone they want to be dead.

Now, my question: If someone you know decided they wanted you dead, how would you prefer they go about it? Keep in mind, there's a very strong likelihood you WILL be killed if someone makes up their mind to kill you. (Especially, if you choose to NOT own a weapon.)

Would you want them to beat you to death with a baseball bat?

Stab you to death with a knife?

Poison you with Anti-freeze (or some other poison)?

Shoot you through the head with a gun?


For my own sake, if someone wants me dead, I'm not a fan of pain and suffering. I'd want them to get it over with quickly. And, if they don't kill themselves afterwards, I want THEM to suffer the full force of the law for their action.

Right here in our area, there's a town by the name of Kennesaw. In this town it's actually a law that every head of the household owns a gun. Now, this law is NOT enforced. BUT, being that the surrounding community is aware of this law, one of the things that make this town unique is that there's a VERY LOW murder rate in this town as compared to the nearby cities and communities. No one can say for sure that this law is the reason for the low rate of murders. But, the law enforcement officers do point to this law as being one of the many reasons why criminals are reluctant to commit such violent acts within the city.

Maybe, just maybe, if that person who wants you dead had any fear that you might kill him/her first, they just might cool off instead of acting on it.

After all, these two women were entirely defenseless in both cases when they were killed. Would the outcome have been different if they'd be able to defend themselves? It's too late to know for sure.

However, I'd really like to have a fighting chance if someone wanted me dead.

OK. On with the show!

Sandok

Definition of demographic: referring to numerical characteristics of a population (eg population size, age structure) The density, age group, size and ALL is in the demographic notion...

My god man I can't believe you're even asking this... What changed there? A whole nation crumbled under the mafia, curruption and uprest of the bluecollar worker. As Developping as CONTRARY to developed. Before they had a glorious past (eg: DEVELOPED).

Okay I've gone through the thread and fail to see it... Care to do it again?

Unbiased? OH please... And apart from that, I post the links regularly so I don't have to hunt them down everytime, common curtsey.

This is the whole problem with you... You say RUssia the perfect example and fear that you'll become like it, yet it was communist, the US never was, it had major curruption, the US never has, it is a ONE out of 230+ countries, yet you fear for the most IMPROBABLE example. That's what I meant by blowing out of proportion...

As a comparable argument to your method of debating. In America, kids got guns at school and shot students! Hey, it happened very rarily but so what, because of this said "one example", I want all schools to have metal detectors! YOu reason like that and there really is no point in posting, I can't care less... You don't wanna repeat yourself, you don't wanna proove anything unless it's biased and outta your mouth and you don't wanna believe a single shred of evidence I've posted. This is called a one sided argument where I'm talking and it's falling on deaf ears..

Sandok

Okay mate, here you go... Switzerland is ranked 56 and Greece is 58... WOW what a HUGE difference Two places stasticly!!!

I'm not ignoring your statments, I just don't see how general murders per capita have ANYTHING to do with gun crime? I mean, seriously, please fill me up... Gun control, gun murders I see a link... Gun control, murders, I fail to see that link...

And we have tons of immigrants too, above 30% so I'd rate our "slightly" higher murders per capita to that. So please, why don't you look at all the facts?

BlueMak

Are you joking? You fail to see what murders have to do with gun crime?

The important thing, even for 2 places, is that Greece (doesn't matter if it is Greece or country X) that does not have strict gun controls has lower murders than one that has. You know the whole argunment you are making about USA and guns in relation to UK, France, Germany, Switzerland?

Calinerti

About 7 in 10 homicides are attributable to firearms. If anyone makes up their mind to kill you, Dyre, your odds are good you'll get what you want. And you're right, it would be much better to be shot through the head than to have a large angry man keep punching you in the chest until you died. (Only a 6% chance of getting beaten to death with hands, feet etc.)

Homicides aren't the leading cause from death from firearms. Suicide is. I dont know that I agree that "there's a very strong likelihood you WILL be killed if someone makes up their mind to kill you." But certainly if someone is determined to commit suicide, they will try. And since guns are readily available, and a custom built tool for the job, naturally they become the obvious choice.

Sandok

How does a population having guns lower murders or a population not having guns raise murders? You make a link but techincally, it's all a theory that has absolutely no backing.

And Switzerland has a 30% immigrant population, much higher than Greece so I most likely think a lot of problems are linked to that. But fine, Greece is better than Switzerland which is better than the US.

However, something none of you are answering is why countries with almost no guns (eg: France, Germany, Spain, Japan etc) have lower crime? Doesn't that just sorta mess up what you just said? These countries with stricter rules than Switzerland and such have less gun crime, less murders and less suicides? Coincidence? I think not...

BlueMak

The point SAndok, that several otherpeople try to make here is that guns are NOT responsible. It's the economy and the people, not the guns that kill people. It is not that guns are easily available in the USA that is the problem, as it isn't the prohibition of guns in other countries. In fact it is almost irrelevant, understood?

Sandok

Then why would the richest most intelligent and most powerful country then have the higher crime and murder than countries that don't even OFFER their citizens guns for protection?

It's a complete contradiction.

Calinerti

What is it about the US economy that kills people? I cannot agree with that at all. In the top ten countries in terms of murders with firearms per capita (according to nationmaster), the US is the only first world nation. There isnt any correlation between a strong economy and high murder rates with guns.

temeteus82

That is so true!

Mousey

when people get pissed with guns they pull the trigger no doubt about it but the thing with knives is the exact same thing can happen, a moments rage and whaddya know you got a 12" or whatever poking out the other side, i spose guns are like R.L's rocket launchers, n00bs only

BlueMak

Well, I don't have the numbers now but how many dozen million poor are there in the USA?
Just because the USA (or any X country) is so powerful and has so much wealth, it doesn't mean that all those millions are well off too.
That in combination with different life style, different (to a point) family structures and social (government) protection, help increase crime, including murders.

Calinerti

There is a difference between the two. Which, do you think affords more lethal force? i.e. which is more likely to result in death, given that its a moment of anger or frustration which caused the delivery in the first place? Its no secret that knives can kill. And its also no secret that with increased expenditure on firearms in the US, there are more deaths from firearms. That is DIRECT correlation. Amount of firearms and deaths from firearms. Direct correlation.
There have been knives forever. A moment of anger is unlikely to cause a fatal injury, but it does happen. (Whoever mentioned the ROCK as a competitor for a firearm in terms of lethal force is clearly confused).

Calinerti

Obviously........

BlueMak