Freedom to Fascism

OnDborder · Mar 5, 2007, 03:12 PM

http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...&q=aaron+russo
Wow. This puts it all together. Why, how, when..
"Evolve or perish".
Watch it.

GutterPunk · Mar 6, 2007, 08:17 AM

I got 10 minutes in, I have to go to work. So far, it has caught my attention and probably will finish it in 2-3 segments. interesting find

Sandok · Mar 6, 2007, 08:41 AM

I don't really get the point of the vid (only watched 10mn so far...) but every country has this system of taxes, it's nothing unique to one place.

The goverment needs money, and taxes are how they get it, no?

Dowaco · Mar 6, 2007, 09:02 AM

US constitution Article 1: section 8:

"The Congress shall have power to lay and collect taxes, duties, imposts and excises, to pay the debts and provide for the common defense and general welfare of the United States; but all duties, imposts and excises shall be uniform throughout the United States;

To borrow money on the credit of the United States;"

I was able to find this in 10 seconds. Why is it a mystery to this film maker?

This Myth comes up all the time and it is completely bogus. Asking people on the street if they have ever seen a law saying they must pay taxes is laughable. Have you seen the" Americans are stupid" thread in this forum? People on the street can't get their names right let alone comment on matters of constitutional law. The so called experts who are interviewed are disgruntled ex-IRS employees. This is more like a Saturday Night Live spoof than a serious documentary.

I hate paying taxes as much as anyone but they are required to have a cohesive society. The only thing I don't like is the unfair practice of taxing income rather than use.

OnDborder · Mar 6, 2007, 10:42 AM

Ok, take any amount of time you need...
'Find the law/statute where it states it is "mandatory" under penalty of law, to pay/file "personal income tax", without that indivdual forfeiting the 5th amendment rights..
There is a law and penalty for theft/larcony, there's a law/penalty for fraud, etc.

Did you watch the whole movie? I do believe the article that you brought up is clarified in the middle of the movie..Something about excise taxes and taxes on corporations. I think.

Maddogg6 · Mar 6, 2007, 12:41 PM

Quote:

Amendment 16 - Status of Income Tax Clarified

The Congress shall have power to lay and collect taxes on incomes, from whatever source derived, without apportionment among the several States, and without regard to any census or enumeration.

contradicts his 'facts' mentioned.

Quote:

Did you watch the whole movie? I do believe the article that you brought up is clarified in the middle of the movie..Something about excise taxes and taxes on corporations. I think.

Did you verify the film makers 'facts' he stated ? - like verify case law he mentioned etc..??

I have a feeling ol willy nelson fell victom to this as well.

But I didnt take that as a 'spoof' either. Makes more sense hes looking for re-newed fame by causing conflict.

Maddogg6 · Mar 6, 2007, 12:53 PM

Furthermore - congress is FILLED with lawyers - and its their job to create laws.
AND - its VERY easy to edit video to make just about ANY situation 'seem' completely different - just watch the main stream media - they do it all the time.

Dowaco · Mar 6, 2007, 01:42 PM

I did not veiw the whole thing but I have seen this type of argument before. It's wishful thinking by folks who are trying to be creative with the laws.

Law- Title 26 Internal Revenue Code
http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/ht...sup_01_26.html

Penalty
http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/ht...1----000-.html
"Any person who willfully attempts in any manner to evade or defeat any tax imposed by this title or the payment thereof shall, in addition to other penalties provided by law, be guilty of a felony and, upon conviction thereof, shall be fined not more than $100,000 ($500,000 in the case of a corporation), or imprisoned not more than 5 years, or both, together with the costs of prosecution."

OnDborder · Mar 10, 2007, 12:16 PM

"nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself", you are in affect being a "witness" against yourself when you fill out your form and they use it against you. Forcing you to give up one of your Constitutional rights.. Which one would you be ok with on giving up next?
The Supreme cases?Nope, didn't look up the case law. Have to do my taxes. But the cases he highlights were in the papers and tv.
Listen, I'm not advocating "not paying" taxes but you know as well as I that the people have are the caretakers of the goverment, not the other way around.
Watch the entire movie. The second half has to do with the Federal Reserve.

"None are more hopelessly enslaved than those who falsely believe they are free"

OnDborder · Mar 10, 2007, 12:20 PM

Cornell.edu must be down. Can't get the links.

Dowaco · Mar 10, 2007, 02:35 PM

Yeah, the links are down for me as well. It is just title 26 of the IRS code you should be able to get it anywhere.

As for the 5th amendment, there is no conflict.
The tax code simply requires you to report the income and pay the tax, not to say where it came from. If you got the money illegally like from the sales of illegal drugs, you put down $50,000 or whatever in the box labeled "other income" and you pay the tax on it as short term income. If anyone asks you where you got the money (why would they?) you refuse to answer. The IRS does not care as long as you don't lie on the form.
The FBI might care where you got the money but they don't have access to the form unless they get a warrant. Even then, you do not have to disclose where the money came from if it might incriminate you.

Or you could pay the $100,000 and spend 5 years in jail if you choose not to report income at all. In some cases, that might be the best option available.