The Iran Nuke Crisis ?

Matth

The story, at least from news coverage, so far...

Iran operates a Uranium enrichment facility, with the prospect of making nuclear weapons.

The western world is more alarmed at the prospect of an Islamic rogue state having nukes, than at the communist states.

Iran has a pretty much standing threat against Israel, Israel threatens pre-emptive strike to remove potential nuclear capability.

Diplomats talk a good fight, sanctions appear inevitable but most likely ineffective.

Now, it seems there is strong evidence that Iran has been arming pro-Saddam rebels to kill peacekeeper forces and innocent bystanders.
This surely twists the balance, and while it seems unlikely that the US would actually condone an Israeli strike, I guess the US (and probably the UK) would stand behind their "self defence" justifications if they did so.


In fact, lets get the the debate rolling, if Iran are not prepared to negotiate their nuclear capabilty away, then it must be removed by force, and not by leaving Israel to do our dirty work.

DudeBoyz

If Iran is not under any armistice agreement and not bound by treaty, we have no right to try to force them to do anything, imo.

We can ask, propose incentives, etc. but the bottom line is, if they are not bound by any existing settlements, they should be free to pursue whatever they wish.

That is, as long as they do not impose their force on any surrounding nations. If they, for instance, decide to move against another nation militarily, that is a whole different situation, again, in my opinion.

mkk

There won't be a crisis until someone starts bombing Iran.

Sandok

If the US does go after Iran (especially now that they say, "Insurgents are getting help and roadside bombs and all" which is most probably true) then not only is that country gonna become like Iraq, civil unrest but USA is REALLY gonna have it's work cut out...

What a world we live in

Maddogg6

My sentiments exactly. I really doubt Iran would obliterate Isreal with out considering the inevitable repercussions from the US (ney, world). I don't think ANYONE running any country is that stupid, far from it actually.

Seems the *media* is trying to get people to demand something be done about Iran. Their bombs kill 179 of our troops out of 3100+ - seems like small change considering we killed what 300K+ or was it 600K+ Iraqi's (maybe Iranians too??) ... that # may also depend on what news source you believe.

WE SHOULD NOT cause anymore international waves while our current administration is in office - were pretty sure they lied about iraq - so their 'intelligence' looses credibility because so. Maybe these weapons were stolen from Iran ??? We must not take too drastic of steps based on what the media tells us - as they distributed the 'bad' intel that convinced too many people to goto war in Iraq - again.

DudeBoyz

Iraq may be different - they were under an armistice from the first Gulf War. Iran is not. Iraq had requirements that they had to meet according to that cease fire. Iran is not in that situation.

If we go in there without them first provoking with direct bombing or invasion of their neighbors, I don't see how that is justifiable. Unless I'm missing something that they know and I am unaware of.

cozumel

I think every arab or muslim country in the world is aware that Israel will prevent aanyone it considers an enemy from acquiring a nuclear capability. This policy has been consistently enforced in the past.

The Western policy of allowing Israel alone to posses nuclear strategic weapons is extremely contentious in the Middle East and causes a great distrust of the West in what they view as an anti-Islamic policy. I don't have a clue how to resolve this but am just stating the facts.

I pray that the US does not get involved in any military action within Iranian sovereign territory. Innocent Iranian citizens (mostly arab & muslim) would undoubtably be among the casualties and hostility towards the West and its citizens would only increase.

SFOSOK

It really depends on if that is a risk anyone wants to take (I'm pretty sure Israel doesn't want to take that risk).


If we let Iran build nuclear weapons (when it is pretty clear we are trying to reduce the amount of nukes in the world) then every country will have the right to build nuclear weapons.



If I was Israel I'm pretty damn sure I would do everything in my power to stop Iran from building nuclear weapons.


With millions of lives on the line a 1% chance of Iran using a nuclear weapon on another country is more than enough reason to halt the process.

Maddogg6

Hmm the 1% risk versus the certainty of all out (world??) war if we 'do something' about it... Ill take that 1% risk personally. ESPECIALLY if it yet again - is based on 'faulty' intel.

Sandok

Come on, many other countries that are bloody dangerous have nukes and the "world" (replace by whatever you want) does nothing about them.

Pakistan anyone?

SFOSOK

How can it be based on faulty intel if they themselves are admitting it?


So I'm guessin you just want to sit on ur hands then?

I know! Lets send it to the UN where they have authority over no one and can do absolutely nothing. No matter what you want to happen, if Iran doesn't back down neither will Israel. Considering Israel is an ally war may be inevitable.

OmegaRED

It's too late to turn back as soon as America went after Iraq it sent out the message none of the "Axis of Evil" are safe. History has shown the only safe route is to either destroy Irans military power or reach an agreement, if you wound them (lets say with air strikes against their nuke program) it will only get worse and Iran will strike back at Israel.

Sandok

You guys must realize that if Israel or USA attack any more countries in that region that world hate against both will reach a new scary level?

Military might is something but having billions angry (or worse ) against you? Meh that's quite something else...

SFOSOK

Though that may be true, its too late now. If anything we should be questioning if we have passed the point of no return and if so then America and the World need to put their full force into it.

Its all or nothing at this point.



I personally think we have crossed over that point and we should spend less time bickering and more time thinking of how quickly as possible to correct the issue.

Pulling out is not an option imo. If we do everything we have worked for in the Middle East will collapse. I think if we cut our losses and run things will be absolutely worse than if we finished the job.


Iran's pursuit of Nuclear arms is a test to see how much power the world will let them have.

Sandok

It's not too late! If you think that then you've already crossed a line that is still be debated about. And trust me, in this, America is on it's own... At least most of the World won't be following USA anymore for these wars. Come to CH or the UK or any other European country, you guys are really hated now, more than you think...

Imho pulling out isn't an option but staying ain't one either... You guys are damned if you do, damned if you don't... And what work have you done in the middle east? Because from what I can sorta see, nothing is really standing proud for the US in that region of the world. You've brought civil war to a country that just had a dictator... I dunno but personally, 35 thousand dead iraqis is worse than when saddam was in power.

And as for this Iran nuclear power, you guys do understand that iran has to reach 98% plutoniumn efficency to build a bomb? And the best they've achieved so far is about 10% which is used for nuclear energy... Sure they might want bombs but you mustn't forget that iran is a developping nation... They can't easily obtain bombs. North Korea for example is more dangerous right now, knowing they have actually detonatated a bomb

Maddogg6

My problem is that:
1) Iran denies making arms - and evidence points they have legitimate need for nuclear power - are they lying about making nukes ?? how can we ever be sure?
2) I have heard of no evidence proving they are making arms.
3) I don't trust ANY government on 'words' alone - even if its supposed to be Isreal saying it - who have been at odds with surrounding muslim nations for decades now.
4) 'doing something' is more likely to cause more problems if the situation is not fully understood.
5) one thing I DO know - is WE will never fully understand the situation with our current administration given their track record now becoming clearer.

My concern with Iran is that; how can we be sure they will secure/report/convict 'stolen' uranium - by potentially 'terrorist' organizations?

But - I feel if they allow the UN to do their job and agree to follow existing nuke pacts - they can make sure Iran WILL keep close tabs on their enrichment process'. The UN may be a joke in other ways, but - we haven't had a nuke go off yet either - so I trust THEIR track record more than our administrations record.

Maddogg6

agreed - AND I also have personal knowledge oof how much koreans in general hates the US too.

N.Korea was a much bigger threat imo too.

DudeBoyz

What gives us the right to stop other countries from developing their own Nukes if they want to?

If they are not under a treaty or armistice or some such thing, who are we to impose our will on them in that regard?

Pompey

DudeBoyz

We should not disarm Isreal. We should arm and protect them. After all that the Jewish people have been through, they need someone on their side who believes that they have a right to exist. You don't disarm the victim of a bully, you help them learn how to fight to defend themselves.

It was the United Nations that formed the boundaries initially, and they have done little to protect those boundaries. I am glad the US has historically stood by Isreal.

Sandok

They are hated the world over because of what they have done since the middle ages in Europe...

And they have a right to exist, but why do they have a country when they never ever did? I mean, sure they went through hell but I sorta don't understand why they have a country in the middle of their ennemies land?

The US has created a huge problem with having the Isrealies armed to the teeth...

DudeBoyz

I hate biggoted anti-Semitic commentary like that. Jew haters just aren't worth talking to or listening to.

Sandok

My god your closed minded... I don't hate jews But hell, if you wanna believe otherwise, go ahead mate.

And if you want, study EUROPEAN HISTORY and then comment on what I say will you? It's the truth that Jews have a horrible repuatation on this continent, long before World War II...

I was just saying why they have been through hell on earth but obviously I'm a jew hating monster aren't I? Sheesh...

Maddogg6

First off.
No one should confuse Israel gov't with Judism - just as no one should confuse US gov't with its citizens. Its not always the same.

Consider this, Im hearing WE are now hated more around the world because of gov't actions - I consider the possibility that the same could be true for Israel and Jews in the past too.

edit:
Heres a contrast - if Israel does something - it seems to be associated with Judism - but If the US does something its NOT associated with any particular religion, although majority christians.
So the difference being - Does Israel use its military to push jewish adgenda?? - or for Israel agenda?
end edit.

Second - I would tend to agree with dudeboyz as it does kinda come off as prejudice. But becuase he didnt use the word 'jews' he may have mistakingly confusing Israel with Judism/jewish history as indicated above.

BUT I will add this - Seems Israel can learn some diplomacy.
The recent Lebanon events where we supplied bombs for them to use (and is now/was since investigated over if they were properly used, btw)

Even the US in past similar situations, we didn't react the same. I wondered why Israel didn't send in their well know special forces - the musaad - or how ever it is spelled - to rescue the hostages that Israel used in justifying their use of these bombs on Lebanon..?? So yes, I think Israel may have over reacted in that matter.

Yes - the US should make sure Israel (or ANY country for that matter) has their case heard and taken seriously. But... Some of their tactics - considering they ARE surrounded by 'enemies' - seem dumb, unless its done knowing your bigger more powerful friend will defend you no matter what?

That dig thats going on that is causing great tensions is another for instance - no matter who is in the right, Israel seems to care little who they piss off in doing so - its at least another example of lack of diplomacy, at worst backing up what I *think* Sandok may have been trying to hit on. But I dont want to put words in his mouth either and would like for him to elaborate, with facts/references.

Sandok

Woah guys I dunno what happened when I wrote what Dude quoted me on but it's definately not what I wanted.