Global Warming Man Made?

Falstaff

http://today.reuters.com/news/articl...Art-R2-Today-3

The U.N. climate panel issued its strongest warning yet on Friday that human activities are heating the planet, adding pressure on governments to do more to combat accelerating global warming.

The IPCC, the most authoritative group on warming grouping 2,500 scientists from more than 130 nations, predicted more severe rains, melting glaciers, droughts, heatwaves and rising sea levels, especially if Antarctica or Greenland thaw. The final text said it was "very likely" -- or a probability of more than 90 percent -- that human activities led by burning fossil fuels explained most of the warming in the past 50 years.

Is anyone convinced we need to do something yet?

temeteus82

I've been convinced for long time now about climate change. But when Americans think like in the movie Jesus Camp. I don't wonder why they won't do anything about it! Well since now the polar bears are in endangered species list in the USA there is hope.

Dowaco

I am not convinced "global warming" is a real phenomenon. Long term climate change needs to be tracked long term (like thousands of years) before conclusions can be drawn. Taking the last 100 years of accurate temperature readings is just not enough data to make any guesses as to what the Earth's climate will be in the next 100 years.

To then claim that any temperature changes are man made is speculation at its most extreme when there are energy sources far more powerful than all of man's combined energy efforts in the last 2000 years (the sun and the earth's core).

This question has become more political than scientific, in my opinion, due to the joining of tree huggers and doom and gloom liberals who are looking for scapegoats even when no problem exists. The general public, unable to analyze complex data, go with an emotional homo-centric response. OMG, smog caused by the bad humans is killing us all!

I look at evolution vs creationism as the flip side of this where the religious right wing tries to set education policy based on faith not facts.

In general. when politicians get involved with science only bad things can result. Science deals with discovering facts, politics deals with obscuring facts.

After saying all this, I do not deny that the Earth could be getting warmer due to factors beyond man's control. Doing something about it might be a good idea. But protecting against an asteroid strike would also be thoughtful. People don't want to spend money on space research or fusion or nuclear power but want the government to fix the Earth's problems nevertheless.

DudeBoyz

I'm skeptical.

When volcanos erupt, particularly with massive ash like Mt. St. Helens, they do more harm in one shot than humans may have done in a lifetime.

The Earth has apparently gotten mega-hot and mega-cool all without our help over the millions of years that the planet has supposedly been around.

This planet has been around a long, long time, and it had upheavals long before we ever arrived.

I think it's down right arrogant to think that it's all about us.

Yeah, we should do some things better, but honestly people, ice was being formed and melted well before man came on the scene.

Judas

massive astroids hitting the planet.. etc.

While i agree that we don't have a very good idea of what's happened beyond 100 years for weather conditions, you'd be serprised how accurately they can figure out what temperatures and weather conditions were like over the last few thousand years, right up to differences from one million and another million years just by looking at the vegitation and presure points and soil samples.

Most of the natural heat disturbances are quick and fast, causing very little for climate change of a long peroid (fast climate changes happen, usually the earth goes through a recycle period where the temperatures either rise or fall rapidly, and within even just a few years, everything is reset back to normal). Where as the continued slow increase in temperatures is quite different.

Plus we all know that the unnatural mass gases we create and lose regularly is causing issues with the enviroment.

Plus you have to also consider that the more volume and serface area that we create by building structures that can capture more light and heat energy is also contributing.

While yes, i agree to some that we don't have a very good idea what's going on, we are also not sure that nothing is happening, everything is naturally occuring either.

Either case, WE DO NEED to work on making things more efficient, to reduce smog and enviromental problems and contanimants. And use products that can decompose easily.

Tinkerhell

We should just ask the mice. Hell they had it built to their specifications...

Seriously though, I agree with Judas.
I am anything but convinced that MAN has caused "global warming". I wholeheartedly feel that MAN is wasteful and destructive & that we could be doing a whole lot better in about a million ways. I guess I'm sort of a greenie but not because I think the planet is dieing, rather because I think we should be smart enough to realise that eventually fossile fuels are going to run out. Back when us humans were trying to figure out a better of doing things than via horses and our own two feet fossile fuels were all well & good. Gave us a good start & got us through the infancy of the industrial age. Times are a changing though & I personally feel it's about time that we developed solar, hydro & nuc alternatives and start phasing out the oil & coal. Maybe stop cutting down so many damn trees too.
I'm running out of places to do my cross country running...

Zelig

You've got this completely backwards... natural climate change is extremely long-term, short changes over a few years is called weather, it has nothing to do with the climate. However, the climate change that is currently occuring, is progressing at a faster rate than any that has happened in the past.

Judas

I was refferingto natural climate changed caused by significantly unexpected occurances, such as a astroid hitting the earth, causing a extreme burst of heat. Or volcanoes errupting, spilling ash into the air, those usually are so hot and so quick in it's occurance that the earth usually reverts back to it's former self without a rather short period of time.

Sandok

The idea that you need generations to track global warming is starting to get old... In the past 20 years, weather has already dramaticly changed and while the natural peaks and glitches of history are to be taken into account, ask a REAL scientist and not just some general ignorant human being who watches Fox News and they all agree that this isn't much of a "theory" anymore.

Global Warming is damn real imho... Hell, CH has had the hottest winter in 1000 years and last year the coldest one in 500 years... Two extremes in two years? That's not because of weather glitches. And the list goes on (floods, burning summers, snow in summer, etc). The past 10 years have gone quite nuts and well, difficult to blame it on volcanos in Europe or other phenomena.

If you DO wish to get some credible information, just watch an Inconvienant Truth... Anyone can understand the official numbers he presents...

Dowaco

When I say "global warming" in quotes I am referring to the theory that human activity is responsible, not that warming is actually occurring.

The planet has had numerous ice ages followed by warming, high volcanic activity, meteor strikes, solar flares, etc. all before humans evolved. Now in the last 100 years of burning fossil fuels people think that this spitting in the ocean is having an effect.

Man's activities may or may not have anything to do with climate changes. Curtailing such activities will likely have as much effect. That is, barely discernible. If we truly want to change climate we need to think bigger. Large mirrors in synchronous solar orbit might make an impact on both the amount of energy hitting the Earth and in harnessing solar power to replace coal and oil. But the same people who say space programs are a waste and who think nuclear energy will blow us all up or mutate us into frogs are the ones who are crying that burning fossil fuels is turning the planet into Venus. Refraining from using so much gas in our cars will make zero impact on climate, yet the Chicken Littles of the world go about wringing their hands and pointing fingers from their SUVs. Stop the madness.

South Park had it right about this topic with the hybrid car episode. Hybrid cars cause smug not smog.

Zelig

I don't think it's fair to make this generalization. Scientists and people who actually understand global warming also understand how little risk nuclear energy actually poses, and are in favour of space programs.

Note: I don't have any direct evidence to support the above, as I will usually have when stating anything regarding global warming and other scientific things. I think it's a fair assumption that the majority of intelligent scientists will generally hold the correct opinion, and I could throw up links with evidence for a consensus for the 3 different mentioned events.

Dowaco

Science is not done by consensus and opinion means nothing. A fact is indisputable by definition.

The majority of the worlds scientists once thought the Earth was flat and that the Sun revolved around the Earth. They also thought there was an aether permeating space and that life was formed by spontaneous generation. Just because everyone believes something does not make it true.

Scientists are people with flaws, religious beliefs, political leanings and axes to grind. You don't see research disproving global warming because "intelligent" scientists know when to keep their mouths shut because they don't know the answer. Jumping to conclusions on sketchy data for a piece of the limelight or to get funding is an explanation I can believe. Whether he is a prima donna Linus Pauling wannabe or a rookie lab worker eager to publish a part of his findings, the media is happy to publicize the work of a climate researcher as long as it is controversial.

DudeBoyz

So much of science is speculation. Scientists argue all the time about this or that. They espouse theories that others disprove and then spend their lives trying to do the same to others out of jealousy or resentment.

This planet has been here Millions of years, right? Don't you think it's a bit much to evaluate less than 100 years and make a definitive claim that we are the primary cause of this thing called "global warming"?

We did not cause an Ice Age. We did not cause the Great Thaw when the polar ice caps melted. We did not cause the extinction of the Dinosaurs. We did not cause the destruction of Pompeii and we did not cause the breakup of Pangea.

A few degrees here or there and we start to panic? How could one possibly argue that the bulk of all climate change is not endemic to the very planet itself?

Sandok

You know what, scientisits may argue but that's usually Thelogists (who think they are scientists) vs the real ones who actually have "credible" PHDs... And anyways, as I said, the world weather has a natural order as you said, ice age and thaw and ice age and thaw... Tis a normal cycle we can accurately mesure with PINPOINT accuracy. If you wanna know how, I'll give ya links.

Anyways, yes the planet is varying naturally too... Magnetic poles are changing dramaticly in recent years (moving from Canada to the real "physical north" by 40km a year) and such but you see, we can easily mesure CO2 emmisions in the air. This year, and last year and the year before that all the way to a about 150 million years. Again, accurately and I can give ya the links for a more detailed reading...

Now, with this CO2 information, we have noticed that while it does fluctuate naturally (ice ages and whatnot), it has always stayed within certain parameters. Except now... So well, let's see, what has changed in the last 100 years? Well, man's civilzation is reaching new heights and people are way more wasteful than ever... No major valconoes (like Pompei or Krakatoa...) or anything else can really explain why CO2 emmision are about DOUBLE the average rate.

So yeah, believe what you want, that's always a good thing but sometimes, it's better to stop something before anything bad actually happens. If you think some of the icy storms in the us, followed by heat is bad... Or the huge storms in Europe and a snowless winter with my gorgeous alps not even skiable, that's nothing to what will and can actually happen... In 2002, a HUGE shedload of ice fell in ocean from anartica:

to

Okay, so that raised sea levels a bit and changed some of the currents especially towards asia (more flooding than ever in bangladesh since then...) But this is nothing to what can happen. Greenland is starting to melt at an alarming rate, as is the opposite ice shelf in antartica... And if they both collapse, that would raise sea levels enough to make countries like Holland, Bangladesh and all ancient history... Florida too And what does that do? If you think america or europe has problems iwth a couple of thousand immigrants, imagine MILLIONS of immigrants that have nowhere to go and all... And disease and loss of fresh water and blablabla...

You might think this really is a worse case scenario but people like you and politicians you really don't wanna cut back on the economy and thus, refuse things like the Kyoto Treaty and whatnot will ONLY wake up when such a catastrophy happens! A pity we gotta wait till that happens, instead of avoiding it

DudeBoyz

I'm talking strictly about science. Religeon does NOT enter into the Global Warming debate, imo.

PEOPLE LIKE ME???

How can you judge me with so little knowledge of who and what I am?

I believe that's quite an unfair thing to do...

Sandok

You'd be surprised how people think theologists are scientists... And as for the real scientists, out of a 100 studies on global warming, none of them disagree... So I don't understand where you got your facts from


Well I judge you by what you've posted so far but excuse me if I came off a bit biased. Sorry mate, it's just that I'm bloody sick and it was 3 am when I wrote that (damn fever won't let me sleep).

Again, my sincere apologizes

BlueMak

I don't know, there was a certain explosion in 1908 which, without us having figured out how exactly, might have had a certain effect on the climate long term. Don't forget the movie The Arrival (1996).

The_Neon_Cowboy

well here the global warming crowd swarming the last few years... IMO their all full of it..
loons and rumors looking to sell you things and get you to donate things to thier couses.
or just looking for attention....

the current weather trends are due to "el nino" a natually occuring weather phenomenon.
At least that's what the meteorologists are saying... I tend to belive the weather guys vs loons

Sure there is a problem, sure something must be done, but enough will never be done. Accept it.
It's money, tech and and the easy life. and the world on a fast trak to doom...Or everyone liveing
like the amish. wich isn't going to happen....willfully

Sandok

No need to go into extremes...

Europe = About 815 million inhabitants
America = About 300 million inhabitants

And yet, America CO2 pollution > Europe

Falstaff

I am beginning to see the CO2 penalty already in the way we use fossil fuels, create things from fossil fuels and how we dispose of fossil fuel waste. A considerable amount of poisonouse gas or gases are accumulating in our upper atmosphere, if we have not directly caused the warming trend at least we have precipitated a premature warming trend. Even the U.S. military has gathered information about global warming and the information is damning.

ZzzombieBunny

You know we dont all have to live like the amish in order to prevent global warming. Its the little things that need changing, you know like recycling, not driving cars that use 10x the fuel that a normal car, lowering your overal electricity output (etc changing lightbulbs to low energy).

But in order for people to actually go out and do those changes in their lifes, we obviously need the goverment to babysit companies, because as long as the mighty dollar runs things no one is going to take Global Warming seriously. I mean geez, why ya all think America is one of the only countries not to have signed the Kyoto, might it have something to do with $$$?

Didnt the FBI (or some other security agency) consider Global Warming a bigger threat to america than terrorism, yet more money seems to be spent on "fighting" terrorism than on something that might lead millions of people dead or homeless.

SFOSOK

Expect that a lot. Quite a few people think Americans fit into a stereotype as gun toting morons who only care about money, food, football, their own country, and war.

Turns out ignorence is everywhere in the world.

Edit: Global warming is not just American's fault. If you use a car or motorcycle, have factories and trains in your country then you and your country polute. This "my country is better than yours" BS is rediculous